Episode 158 | Kevin Haas

Published September 20, 2022

Miranda Metcalf  02:41

Hi Kevin, how's it going?

Kevin Haas  02:43

Hello, Miranda, how are you?

Miranda Metcalf  02:44

I'm really good. I'm good. I'm so glad we're finally getting a chance to talk. I feel like you and I have been in the similar print world circles since my very first months and years as being a little wobbly, bandy-legged contemporary print person, way back when I was at Davidson, probably like 10 years ago. And - I know, right? That was a long time ago!

Kevin Haas  03:11

Yeah, that was like, 2014, I think? Yeah.

Miranda Metcalf  03:14

Yeah. I started there in 2013. And so it's coming up on 10 years. And then, you know, knowing your work from just the general, global-about-town print scene, seeing you at conferences, and of course, you've been a feature on Reinaldo's video series, which is really exciting, of the studio visits that he's been doing. And now we finally get to talk. So I'm glad you're here! 

Kevin Haas  03:15

Yay!

Miranda Metcalf  03:43

So before we dive in and get to know a little bit more about you, can you just let people know who you are, where you are, what you do?

Kevin Haas  03:53

Yeah. So I am Kevin Haas. I currently live in Moscow, Idaho, of all places. I teach at Washington State University, which is just 10 miles away across the border. I've been there for over 20 years now. I'm originally not from the Inland Northwest. I'm a Midwesterner from St. Louis. I grew up there, and then eventually went to Chicago for undergrad and stayed on working there in some different studios. And went on to Indiana for grad school, then back to Chicago. I just couldn't resist the pull of that city. And yeah, eventually ended up out here because of the teaching position. And for various reasons, I've ended up staying here for all this time.

Miranda Metcalf  04:44

Yeah, yeah. And so you said that you grew up in St. Louis. What role did art play in that part of your life?

Kevin Haas  04:54

A big part. I actually pretty much grew up with art. My parents did have prints in their home. So I kind of came by that naturally. But yeah, ever since I was young, they dragged me out to museums, both in St. Louis and nationally, in Europe. So I was kind of taught at a early age that you're supposed to stare at objects on the wall and think about them.

Miranda Metcalf  05:23

Yeah! And were they in a creative field at all?

Kevin Haas  05:26

No. My father was a historian, focused primarily in English history, the management of the Royal Navy, and lived in the UK for a bit. My mother worked a bit as a editor for a small newspaper in St. Louis, but was mostly a homemaker. Yeah. So basically, I've been in academia my entire life. But because of that, my father's interests, he always planned out trips and was always taking us to various historical sites and museums. So I saw lots of art all the time. And from an early age, they took me down to the St. Louis Art Museum to take classes there that were for children. So I remember making these dragons based off of Chinese ceramics there, and things like that. So it just kind of seemed [like] a natural course for me to end up going into art, because I had such a strong interest in it and exposure to it throughout my childhood. So it was a little surprising when my parents were a little dismayed when I said, 'I want to go to art school!'

Miranda Metcalf  06:31

Oh, no! You're like, 'What have I been training for?' Yeah.

Kevin Haas  06:35

Yeah. But yeah, the St. Louis Art Museum was a place I went to frequently, especially as soon as I could drive in high school. That's where I would go. I would go to the art museum, and I'd go to other galleries in St. Louis. So yeah, I don't know, it's just been my entire life.

Miranda Metcalf  06:43

Yeah. And so you were a kid who enjoyed doing it, it sounds like. You know, I think some people have maybe similar stories, and were just like, 'And I found the museum so boring,' you know, because not every kid responds to it. But do you remember looking forward to the trips and understanding that they were something exciting and special? 

Kevin Haas  07:21

Oh, yeah, absolutely. 

Miranda Metcalf  07:22

Oh, wow.

Kevin Haas  07:23

It was always fun to go. Yeah, it was really special to be able to see all these amazing different things that people created, both contemporary stuff, which I enjoyed, and of course, lots of historical things as well. So in high school homeroom - this would have been, what, '88, '89, somewhere in there - the Anselm Kiefer Retrospective, at the time, was traveling around, and I actually had the catalogue for that. So that's what I was reading in homeroom. I was trying to make my way through this dense text about Anselm Kiefer's very esoteric, philosophical, historical work. Yeah. So I guess that makes me not your typical...

Miranda Metcalf  08:05

Yeah, so where other people might be hiding comic books, which are, you know, their own form of art, young Kevin is working through art theory, is what I'm hearing.

Kevin Haas  08:13

Yes.

Miranda Metcalf  08:13

Yeah. So we've set the scene. We've got young Kevin sneaking art theory in homeroom. And yet, your parents were still surprised when you chose art school!

Kevin Haas  08:33

Yep.

Miranda Metcalf  08:33

So for that part of your life - I mean, it sounds like you maybe never considered doing anything else. It just was, this is what I'm gonna do, is go do art. Is that right?

Kevin Haas  08:45

Yeah, I felt pretty committed to that early on. I mean, I certainly had other interests when I was young. I was an amateur astronomer when I was young. Really into insects, things like that. But yeah, art just seemed to be the right path. And something I was very interested in and wanted to pursue. And yeah, I was pretty... yeah, single minded about that.

Miranda Metcalf  09:06

Cool! And so you said that you grew up knowing about prints, or at least having prints in the house. Did you know that printmaking was its own form of art before going and doing it?

Kevin Haas  09:20

Not necessarily. I was kind of aware of it. I did do just a little print thing, another class that I [took] at the St. Louis Art Museum. But yeah, I wasn't super aware of it. But I think I was more familiar with it through various kind of historical sites that we'd go to, where it was kind of recreation of a 19th century town, and there'd be a printing press there and things like that.  I was familiar with that more industrial kind of technology. And that's certainly something that really drew me to print as well.

Miranda Metcalf  09:48

Gotcha. Oh, so it was that connection to that history, and that early technology was part of it for you?

Kevin Haas  10:06

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, growing up in St. Louis, and then being in the Rust Belt parts of the Midwest, to Chicago, into Gary and stuff, yeah, that kind of industrial infrastructure was just a big part of my visual landscape. And something that really fascinated me. And print, for me, was also something that was very connected to that history of production, and the kind of shaping of cities, and rail lines, and so on. So Chicago was the epicenter of printing in the US. So Printer's Row area - which is all now expensive condos and so on - but that was where the Sears catalog was printed, and so on. And every rail car, of course, was going through Chicago every so many days, as they made their way back and forth across the country. So it was a very important aspect of the Industrial Revolution in early 20th century America. Print is very connected to that, I think. And for me, that was something that made some nice parallels for me, as far as the subject matter of my work at the time. And this interest in print. Yeah.

Miranda Metcalf  11:23

Is it still called Printer's Row in Chicago? 

Kevin Haas  11:27

Mm-hmm. 

Miranda Metcalf  11:27

Really? I didn't know that.

Kevin Haas  11:29

I believe, yeah, it's still called Printer's Row area. Yeah.

Miranda Metcalf  11:32

And now it's expensive hipster land, sounds like?

Kevin Haas  11:37

No, I mean, it actually was converted into loft condos starting, probably, in the late '80s. And so when I was there in Chicago, in the early '90s, I volunteered at what was the Chicago Printing Museum that was in the basement of one of these large buildings that had amassed all sorts of presses, and type, and obscure binding equipment, all sorts of things. And so that's actually where I first learned how to set type, and about typography, and working letterpress. And so yeah, I feel really lucky that I got to learn that way. Long before - I mean, as digital media was emerging in design, I was getting to do everything the old school way. So I really appreciated having those experiences. Eventually, that place closed, and a lot of the equipment got sold off, some going to very various letterpress studios throughout the US. Such as Hatch Show Print, I think, maybe Yee-Haw got some of it. I can't remember where everything went. But it was an enormous amount of equipment.

Miranda Metcalf  12:43

Yeah. And so you spoke, just kind of in passing, about the ways in which that history was intersecting with your practice at that time. Can you speak to that more generally? That sounds really interesting.

Kevin Haas  12:55

Yeah, I mean, for me, it was a really just boyish fascination in this kind of derelict industrial landscape that I spent a lot of time exploring in St. Louis, and then in Chicago, and that kind of region. So I grew up in a kind of North suburb of St. Louis, and to get down to the downtown and museum areas and stuff, we'd drive through North St. Louis, which was a heavily industrial area along the river. And so I just became fascinated by some of those buildings. One of them was this abandoned cement plant. And that's something I actually did a whole bunch of pieces about. And yeah, it was later [when] Bob Cassilly of the City Museum in St. Louis was trying to convert it into an amusement park. Unfortunately, his work on that ended up - he ended up dying there. 

Miranda Metcalf  13:59

Oh, my God.

Kevin Haas  13:59

Because of the work he was doing there. But there's this interesting history there of the dereliction being turned into something really amazing and positive, through the work of folks like him. But for me, yeah, it was really just before everything became so gentrified and cleaned up. I'll never forget being able to ride on a Rails to Trails bike path through the north end of St. Louis, through those areas that I spent so much time photographing, and it just felt so out of place. For being so happy and healthy, and just out enjoying a nice bike ride in the afternoon, going through all this industrial disinvestment. And of course, now so much of that has changed in so many cities, with gentrification and how things have gone since the '90s. But for me, it was a really strong connection between production and labor, and ideas of progress, and the hand versus the mechanical. That landscape kind of embodied a lot of different ideas like that for me, and have wonderful parallels for me in printmaking. And its connection to being a very mechanical and, at times, very 19th century process.

Miranda Metcalf  14:09

Yeah. And so how did that manifest in your work? You said that you did some reflections on this particular - was it a steel mill that you said that was -

Kevin Haas  15:32

It was a cement plant.

Miranda Metcalf  15:33

A cement plant. Yeah, you did some prints in the cement plant. What was that like?

Kevin Haas  15:36

Yeah, it was a huge facility that was abandoned for years. So with that project - this was something I did in grad school - I had all these photographs of the place, and did liquid light on paper to print the photographs, and then had found this manual from the Department of the Interior from like, the 1950s, on working with cement for construction. And so it had all these different graphs and things about the kind of strength and longevity of cement, and curing, and all these different things. So it's kind of pairing all these images of these best laid plans, all the very scientific diagrams of how to control these things and make things to last, and so on, with these images of this place that was actually supposed to make this stuff crumbling and falling apart. And so it was very much questioning ideas of progress and modernity in the 20th century from... more of a postmodern perspective, in some respects, yeah.

Miranda Metcalf  16:44

Yeah. Yeah. And that sense that things are just going to keep getting better and better, and easier, and more prosperous, that I think really is often summed up in some of these really big manufacturing plants that have since been abandoned. And I think, for me anyway, that's one of the things that I find so intriguing about them. That connection to a time in which, in America - and my father talks about this, my father's a boomer - and he talks about [when] he was growing up, and he knew that we'd won the war. And that - well, he was actually like, 'I knew that we won the war. And we were all going to die in a nuclear blast,' was actually his two, like, prominent memories from childhood. But you know, just that idea that you'd say, Look, we've won this great war, we've defeated this evil. And now people are coming home, and they're getting jobs that you can raise four children on on one salary. And the domestic life is becoming easier through technology as well, of course, with washing machines, and everything like that. And then that kind of peak and fall, I think, of that ideology, and that lifestyle in the United States, is something that I'm sure, where you grew up in the Rust Belt, maybe is more palpable, even. Because you have these monolithic dinosaurs' bones of these factories.

Kevin Haas  18:19

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it was sort of omnipresent there for me. The different places I've lived, and landscapes I traveled through, yeah. That history and legacy of industrial progress was obviously very failed.

Miranda Metcalf  18:38

Yeah, I mean, for you, do you think that's why you were drawn to the buildings? I mean, I kind of just went off and was speaking from the "I" there, for what I see in them, but was that present for you, too?

Kevin Haas  18:50

I think so. Absolutely. I mean, that sort of, I guess, fascination with that sort of change, or that sort of demise, or cultural shifts, or... yeah, I think that's something that interests me. I mean, I have a long standing interest in sci-fi and dystopian films and things like that. So it totally connects.

Miranda Metcalf  19:10

Oh, that's really interesting. But I feel like it would be really difficult for me to watch Soylent Green right now. You know? Because I hadn't really made that connection between these imagined futures, and the sort of sci-fi dystopian worlds, and that landscape. But it's right there. I mean, in that - it's an amazing film. Spoiler alert, Soylent Green is people. But you know, it's the -  - I know, I'm sorry, Kevin. I'm sorry. But you know, I'm sure if you're interested and you've seen the film before, in the way it's like, it's overcrowded. It's really hot all the time. Only rich people can get vegetables. It's made in - I don't know what year it is - sometime in the '70s. So staring down over 40 years ago now. And it just feels so real. And when I see the things that are happening in society, it just takes me back to that. Yeah. So when you said that, I was like, Oh, god, Soylent Green! You know?

Kevin Haas  19:41

Oh! Yeah, I mean, sci-fi - I was just mentioning this to somebody - sci-fi is a warning. And it's sort of been sounding those alarms for us for decades. Since Metropolis, way back in... I believe that was 1927 when that was made. Yeah, all sorts of industrial and labor and social unrest and class issues. Yeah.

Miranda Metcalf  20:41

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I want to make sure we get a chance to talk about the use of text in your work, because I know that's a huge part of it. So we were talking a bit about some of the work that you were doing in grad school, and more connected to the the landscape of your childhood. But I know that you have this interesting - that kind of tension between text and drawing - I find it really interesting when people can effectively use text in fine art. Because oftentimes, text becomes too heavy-handed, it becomes too didactic, or preachy. And you're an artist who uses it successfully and in intriguing ways. 

Kevin Haas  21:24

Thank you!

Miranda Metcalf  21:25

And so maybe to go back a little bit, that interest of text, did that start for you in the basement on Printer's Row with the the typesetting, or was it there before that?

Kevin Haas  21:36

I don't know. I think it was something I was interested in for a long time, but never knew how to do it, or what I would do. Or when I tried to include text, it seemed out of place, or just competed too much with what the image was. It wasn't the right place for it. With the work that's more sort of text and drawing based, I started that in 2019. So it's still really new to me. And still something I'm trying to figure out. Basically, I just made a very kind of decisive change in my work and abandoned the built environment that I was so focused on for pretty much all my time as an artist. And it just seemed that working with the text was a way to kind of complicate images, and also keep things, I guess, a bit more open-ended or nuanced in an interesting way. So it really, for me, choosing text, drawing, or the writing that I do, it's about two different ways of understanding. With text, literally, you can memorize something and recite it just like you would a poem. But with, say, something like drawing, you can't memorize it in the same way. You couldn't repeat it in the same way. And so they're two really different modes of comprehending things, or understanding things, observing things. And with what I'm trying to do with it, with some of the current things, I'm interested in them kind of being visually equal in an image, but saying different things. Or have overlaps that produce kind of random meanings in a way. [You] may read one thing, but don't understand why you see this other thing, but at the same time, you're seeing the text as an image as well. So it's something I'm still trying to kind of process and deal with, and figure out and work through, and trying to push a little bit farther into this summer with some pieces I'm working on. 

Miranda Metcalf  24:00

Yeah, and that way, I think, that text has such seemingly definitive meaning in the way that we perceive it, and some of that challenge to take away that definitive meaning, has to come a bit, maybe, from composition. Or as you said, finding a balance. So it's not the text overpowering the image, which I think happens a lot. When we look at an image, we naturally go to the words as the first thing. No matter what else is going on in the image. 

Kevin Haas  24:32

Exactly. 

Miranda Metcalf  24:33

Yeah. Because that's just the way we're wired, I guess.

Kevin Haas  24:37

Yeah, the text is something much easier to process than the drawing. Yeah, the drawing is something that kind of takes time. The text, you go through line by line, word by word, until you reach the end. In a very orderly, very natural way. We understand the words almost instantly, there's so familiar, the shapes, the letters and everything, they jump out at us. We understand those words, and what our associations with them are. Whereas the drawing is something... yeah, very different every time. And yeah, it's something that can't be experienced or understood in the same way.

Miranda Metcalf  25:15

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I do think that there's something in there, too, of using text in this way... for me, it calls into question a little bit that perceived universal meaning of text. Because that's something that we share, right, is this idea that when I read the word "tree," I'm having the same experience that you have when you're reading the word "tree." But of course, that's a huge assumption on our part, and one that can lead to a lot of crumbling of communication. And a lot of - and of course, we're recording this, as we spoke to, on the morning of the news about Roe v. Wade. And so I can't help but think about how that fits into our legal system, and how the the way in which words, and what they mean, is truly what judges in these high courts who are deciding the fate of millions of people, that's their job. That's what they're set to do. And I think we think about a judge as someone who is supposed to figure out right and wrong, but that's not what they say they do. They look at these words, and they try to figure out what it means. And the very fact that there can be so much contention and strife and upheaval from that speaks to the very point, that we think words have a universal meaning, but of course, they can be as subjective as drawing. We just give them a different hierarchy.

Kevin Haas  26:43

Yeah. These aren't laws, these are interpretations of legal matters. And, yeah, obviously, we've got some folks that are very absolutist about how they understand the Constitution. And there's others of us who see that the Constitution and the Amendments are something that should be much more of a living document.

Miranda Metcalf  27:09

Yeah. Did you know you were making such political work? Sorry, I just, like threw that out there! Making it political with or without your permission!

Kevin Haas  27:23

No, I mean, I wish I could do something like that. I wish I had the ability to do work that was so overtly political. But obviously, yeah, my own political convictions are somehow maybe embedded in there in some way or the other.

Miranda Metcalf  27:39

Yeah. So in terms of trying to create that power balance between image and text, what are some of the ways you go about doing it? I see there's an image behind you - you're here in your beautiful studio - that looks like you've divided up the letters, so not a whole word is on one line. Is that what's going on in the background there?

Kevin Haas  28:03

Yeah, so those are some things that are in progress, kind of drawing, print-ish things. Yeah. So it's been kind of an exploration, since 2018, to figure out different ways to combine image and text. [There were] some things I started off with, where I had laser engraved text that I was doing rubbings of onto the drawings; other ones where, I would do these drawings where I would not draw where the text was. So the text was kind of an absence on the page, but also, obviously, very present. But I'd kind of work with the drawing to have that text kind of come in and out of, say, sharpness, or how contrasty it was. So it could be quite invisible at times. What I'm doing with some of these other things, kind of dispersing this text across the, say, the paper, or the picture plane. So... literally, the words are kind of breaking down and dispersed within that drawing that will happen on that paper. So the letterforms and the line work and so on will kind of get intermingled and make it so that they're very sort of integrated together. So it can't be one or the other. It's both at the same time, but at the same time we will read the text and observe the drawing. But yeah, with the work behind me, I'm screenprinting latex onto the paper, of the text. So basically masking fluid that you'd use for watercolors. And so I screenprint that onto the paper, the text onto the paper, with latex. And then right now, I've just been doing these watercolors onto the paper, and then I can go ahead and remove that latex, and then the text is white there, and I can then start the drawings. So yes, they're a little bit of a process.

Miranda Metcalf  30:09

Could you speak to, a bit, this decision or this need to change your work so much after having had this exploration, as you said, in built landscapes? Because I think that's something that maybe a lot of artists are drawn to, but there's probably some anxiety around it, you know, what you're known for, the kind of brand, for lack of a better word, that you have. And for collectors who are maybe used to buying one set of imagery. What was sort of the tipping point for you, where you realized you needed to go do this? And was it a little bit anxious making?

Kevin Haas  30:47

Absolutely, I mean, I think the work now is, in part, about just the anxiety of trying to do this, in some ways. And just trying to make artwork. So with some of the phrases, they are meant to be... yeah, kind of critical of the artwork itself, or "why do it," or "is it actually of any value?" So it is meant to kind of play with the purpose and the value of what these things are. But it was just a lot of life changes at the time. And so just with everything that happened, I kind of took a break, actually, for a while, from making work. And just kind of slowly made notes and things, and eventually kind of got to this place where I was able to have a sabbatical again, and started off with a residency at Jentel in Wyoming. And what was nice there is that there's no presses or printing equipment or fancy digital this or that. It's just a beautiful, 400 square foot room that you have to do stuff in. And so I kind of had to go back to the basics and start over. And so it really kind of went back to drawing, and also starting to work with text. And spending a lot of time in that space, just trying out different combinations, exploring drawing again, getting back into that, and experimenting. And so it's very much - even though people will say, 'Oh, well, it's still Kevin work.' I'm like, well, yeah, obviously, it's me. I can't get away from that. But for me, personally, fundamentally, there's a lot of things that have changed. And it has been kind of a struggle to figure out what I am doing with all this. Where's it headed? Should I bother? Should I just go back to making images of... sprawl and things like that? But I feel that part of my job, I guess, as an artist, is to keep challenging myself. And I guess also, since I am in academia, I do have that, I guess you could say buffer, in a way that I don't have to be producing work to earn a living or have a gallery that's representing me that is kind of expecting a certain kind of quality or type of work from me. So it opens me up to be able to explore and try a lot of different things. And I am, I guess, a bit restless in that way, that I'm always trying something different, trying to figure out a better way to do something, or a way that will work well for what it is I'm thinking about. And so this definitely feeds into that. And so I'm not... I wouldn't say I'm an artist that has a "practice," in the way that I'm like, in the studio every day doing my thing. So much of it is kind of project oriented, or once I figure out some technical things, then it's able to proceed forward, or it's connected to an exhibit I might have. So I'm not working in a more typical way that some people do. But at the same time, I find that kind of frustrating, I guess. I wish I was more sort of regular in that way, and was able to produce on a more general schedule like that. But yeah, I think with the changes I've made, it seems that that kind of experimentation and exploration needs to be a part of it. And as you said, and I think most people who have worked with text in artwork realize, yeah, it can be difficult and challenging. And so I appreciate you saying that you're intrigued by what I'm doing with it, and that I seem to be doing it better than others, and certainly my first - one kind of critique I had earlier on with some of this work was somebody just saying, flat out, 'Wow, it's so hard to work with text in artwork like this.' And just sort of acknowledging that. And somehow I've been... even though I know that that is absolutely the case, because I've certainly tried in the past and failed, I am a little bit surprised that I've been able to do this combination of text and image. Again, it's still really fresh and new to me. And I haven't figured it out at all. But it's also about... I guess it's about that process, too, of trying to figure things out a bit, that it asks those questions, or expresses all those kind of uncertainties.

Miranda Metcalf  35:29

Yeah, I was thinking about it. It's difficult because it's so powerful. It's like letting a wild stallion into your studio or something, you know? 

Kevin Haas  35:42

Maybe in Idaho, it would be a wild moose.

Miranda Metcalf  35:43

Yeah. A wild moose, exactly! You know, just something that's so strong that it can wipe everything else out, unless it's controlled, and almost trained, right? In these really specific ways. It's the power that it has, that you need to learn to wield in an effective way. And I love that you've taken that anxiety, and that challenge, and been able to turn it into part of the practice. You mentioned, there's a few phrases that you use that are directly related to your experience. Do you have examples that you can share?

Kevin Haas  36:22

Yes, I have to bring some stuff up. But I guess -

Miranda Metcalf  36:28

That's okay! I can always cut it out. We can always edit it, too, if you want to pause and bring stuff up, then we can just be like -  - To listeners, it'll sound like Kevin was just like, 'Absolutely! Here they are!'

Kevin Haas  36:34

Okay, yeah. I mean, yeah, I guess - let's see, I could kind of read off some things here. So yeah, the one behind me says "Images just disappear." Above that is "Gradients of ambiguity." The next one is "Tangles of indecision." Something I'm gonna be trying to work on for a steamroller print event this year says "Failing to disappear." So they're really terse phrases. Some are pretty obviously what they are about and what they mean. But you know, something like "Failing to disappear," I enjoy the... it's kind of two-sided. Is it that you're not disappearing? Or is it you're actually screwing everything up, and that's it? You're on your way out? And so I kind of like that. And I think that's something we all experience, right, that we want to be hopeful and excited to do well, but at the same time, we're afraid that it'll all go wrong. And sometimes it does. And other times, it does work out okay. So maybe trying to stick the work into that kind of corner, at times, where it can kind of go either way.

Miranda Metcalf  37:54

Do you think of yourself as a poet at all?

Kevin Haas  37:58

No.

Miranda Metcalf  37:58

No, okay.

Kevin Haas  37:59

I don't. Yeah, no. I know some poets. A good friend of mine, he has an MFA in poetry, creative writing. There's actually a good creative writing and poetry program at the University of Idaho here in Moscow. But I do not ever think of myself as a poet. They're doing something so different, way beyond what I can do with words. I just work with this collection of no more than, like, eight words in a piece, right? 

Miranda Metcalf  38:25

Yeah, yeah. 

Kevin Haas  38:27

So I've got to be very careful and picky and choosey about what those words are and how they play off of each other. But somehow...

Miranda Metcalf  38:36

It's a little bit like poetry, but...

Kevin Haas  38:38

I guess! I don't know.

Miranda Metcalf  38:40

But I know what you mean, though, like how poetry is its own beast. It's its own experience and its own craft. But, you know, you do have to think very carefully and be very efficient, I guess, in the words that you're using. I think that is what reminded me a bit of the act of poetry. Some forms of poetry.

Kevin Haas  39:01

That's a good word for it, is efficiency. Yeah, I don't have a lot to say. But I want those words to kind of have a big meaning to them somehow, or that they are very open-ended or nuanced in ways that are open to interpretation. But also, people are like, 'What? What does he mean?'

Miranda Metcalf  39:23

Yeah. And make sure that the words that are in there are doing the right job. Right? Yeah. I think that would be something [that], I would guess, takes a lot of thought and practice and care as well. 

Kevin Haas  39:36

Yeah. And I mean, I start running into things like alliteration. Like, how much do I want to use that? So yeah, maybe doing a series of works that just play with alliterations that deal with uncertainty and things like that... yeah.

Miranda Metcalf  39:54

Do you find that this new-ish, newer, part of your practice... would you consider it research based? Do you do a lot of external work, the way you might have looked into archives for dilapidated cement plants? I mean, does it have any of that kind of element? Or is it really more internal, inside-the-studio kind of work?

Kevin Haas  40:21

It has been really much more internal. The writing and the images really happen completely separate from each other. The writing is just... yeah, lists of words and phrases. And some sort of make it up to the top as I review them or tweak things. A lot of it, of course, just goes to the bottom. And the images all come from photographs I'm taking. So I've kind of kept it much more connected to things in my own life. But something I've been doing more recently is starting to collect images from various news sources that are interesting to me. And thinking that some of those might eventually start making it into work that I do. But yeah, that's a ways off still. I work very slowly.

Miranda Metcalf  41:18

Yeah, well, I mean, I would guess that part of that is inherent process and practice, but also being a professor! I mean, that is a time consuming thing as well. So a lot of the artists I talk to who do both, it is that really tricky balancing act, I would guess, between both of those hats that you wear. As professor and as practicing artist.

Kevin Haas  41:42

It is. And yeah, power to the people who can manage to figure that out really well or don't have any trouble with that. But I think most of us, yeah, it's just competing with time and energy. And there's only so much you can do. And of course, the universities, colleges, education programs are always gonna be asking for more from you. And so getting to kind of establish boundaries... you know, depending on your position, yeah, it's an important thing. But yeah, I mean, part of having this position does open me up to do other things. So I kind of think that making art is one of the things I do. Obviously, teaching is part of it, but also doing things like curating, I have been working with Edie Overturf on an exhibit that we'll be doing this winter, focusing on text and image in print. It'll be at her college, and then come out to WSU in January of next year. So there's one thing. Also, I just did a more design print project with our museum. We have a Jordan Schnitzer Museum of Art here at WSU.

Miranda Metcalf  43:00

Yeah, shoutout to Mr. Schnitzer for everything he does for print. Woot-woot! Thank you, Mr. Schnitzer. 

Kevin Haas  43:06

Absolutely, yeah. Every time I go over there - it's just next door to our art building - and it's a beautiful new museum that was built in 2018. And yeah, I have to pinch myself. The amazing print works I've seen there... it's just phenomenal. We're very, very lucky to be able to have this museum here, and be able to share that with the students, and then have them come over to the print studios and actually make prints themselves. But I just did basically a gig poster for the museum. I had an exhibition up this spring called Indie Folk that focused on artists that work in this folk art style in the Inland Northwest, of which there are quite a few. And I'd worked with one of them previously, Jeffry Mitchell, print and ceramic artist, and had done some print projects with him that were in the museum when it opened. And so Ryan Hardesty, the director there, had invited me to do this gig poster for a series of musical performances that they were going to have in conjunction with the exhibition, focusing on musicians who also kind of explore folk in different ways. So that was perfect, like, I got to flex some design skills, and challenge myself with that, as well as do some screen printing. A nice big edition, and so on. So yeah, I kind of feel I've got a variety of different roles, of how I connect with people in the community, and make art, and promote prints, and do all those different things. So as much as I would love to be just full-time making artwork, there's so many other things that we have to do within academia that it keeps things interesting and exciting and fun. And I get to work with a lot of different interesting people. And I'm very appreciative of that.

Miranda Metcalf  45:09

Yeah, absolutely. As we're talking [about] all the different projects, and the design, I had this thought about the practice that you have now and our current - if you forgive the use of the word - zeitgeist. And I'm wondering if there's a particular interest in words, and the efficiency of words, in internet culture. And in the way that we've really embraced that. And what I mean by that is, for instance, Twitter - which is, now I don't know how many characters, but it used to be less - but I'm specifically thinking of memes. And the way that seems to, almost through a process that's akin to some sort of evolution, as it goes through, people come up with a relationship between images and words where it has to be very efficient, and get the job done really well. But also, to make it work, you usually need both. There are examples that are just text-based, but the most successful ones, it's this real sort of pitch-perfect relationship between the two. And so I guess if there's a question there, it's just sort of, I wonder if you've thought about that? Or thought about the fact that maybe we're living in a time in which people are thinking about that relationship between images and words - maybe not thinking about it, let's say engaging with it. I'm not sure how much people think about memes - but there are definitely academic explorations of them. And how we consume, on a daily basis, most of us in some form, a little bit of what you're kind of exploring. But we do it through popular internet culture.

Kevin Haas  46:57

Yeah, I totally agree and identify with what you're saying. I mean, it's pervasive. If you're on the internet at all, you're going to be getting that all the time. And, I mean, I guess I don't think about that as much. And part of it for me was seeing the emergence of, I guess, a much more accessible kind of print culture, with folks doing larger editions, smaller prints, things were affordable. And that's, I think, been everywhere. It's been a big presence in Spokane, just north of me here, where there's a number of events through the organization Terrain that help artists sell work, at both a store in a mall downtown, as well as a huge event - they just had it this last weekend - with 90 different vendors downtown, selling different arts and crafts and artisanal goods. And with some of that being there's just a lot of things with text in them. A lot of things that have these very pithy, positive [words]. And I don't know, I guess I can be pretty positive, but at the same time, I'm... yeah, well, I'm kind of an older, curmudgeonly older professor right now. So yes, I'm not always quite so positive and optimistic about things, I guess. A little more sanguine. But I think, in some respects, some of the things I was thinking about [are] a way to kind of counter that sort of prevailing positivity, that always seem to be sort of put forward. Why can't someone be ambivalent or just downright negative about something? And so, I mean, that for me is... I kind of played with that in the tote bags that I did. That have those combinations of images and words that are meant to, again, be accessible and inexpensive, and something that you can kind of carry those messages around with you.

Miranda Metcalf  49:06

Yeah, I love your tote bags. I really do. So could you give an example of one of the compositions? Or maybe your favorite? I don't know. 

Kevin Haas  49:18

Oh, yeah. The one that really started it and kind of cemented doing those was the one with the dead plant that says, 'I carry my failures around with me.' 

Miranda Metcalf  49:30

It's really good.

Kevin Haas  49:32

So I think everybody can identify with having a plant that's died. But also, it's just this play with carrying one's failures with you, and then on this tote bag, and carrying whatever it is you may be carrying around with you. Who knows what everyone's story is that you see passing you on the street, and what they feel they've failed at in their lives, and so on. That's just part of what makes us who we are. And just being able to, I think, accept those things, is an important part of maybe being good people.

Miranda Metcalf  50:02

Yeah, absolutely. Could you speak to the experience that you have being an artist and making art outside of a major urban center? And I ask this because I know a lot of the listeners to the podcast, in part, listen to it because they're having that experience. You know, I get messages from people saying, I'm in this small town, I have a home studio, I don't know any other printmakers. I love this podcast because I feel like I get studio talk. It's like a way in. And I know that you're someone who, as you said, you've been 20 years where you are, and you've had some moving around as well. But maybe you could just sort of speak to that as your experience as an artist, having had a lot of your career in not Chicago, London, Tokyo, right?

Kevin Haas  50:56

Yeah, I mean, I've been fortunate that I went to undergrad in Chicago, and stayed on working there. I got to work in Toronto and live there for a bit. And so I've had those kind of urban art experiences, which are, I think, incredibly important. So I often tell my students that are completing undergrad program, that want to go on to grad school, I say, 'Well, you've already done the rural university thing. Perhaps you should try a city at an art school. I know it's really expensive. However, it may be a really important experience for you.' And so yeah, so it's been, I'd say, always a challenge coming from those bigger cities to somewhere out here. And it's just a struggle to make those connections. I know earlier on, when I first was here, I would go to Seattle quite a lot, and was part of a cooperative gallery there. And just kind of ultimately realized that it wasn't really worth my time and effort. And certainly, it's complicated for someone in academia here at a university where we're very isolated, but you're expected to do these exhibits and the kind of standard formulas for... you start off doing more regional things, moving into national things, and then on to more international things. And that kind of follows your promotions through assistant, associate, and full professor, and things like that. So there's this demand and this pressure to be out there in those cities and those bigger urban areas where things are happening, where you get attention, and so on. But what I've kind of been fortunate to see is how that has played out in a very different way for a city like Spokane. So kind of a small to midsize city that has changed quite a lot in the last 15 years, meaning a lot of breweries and restaurants, and also a lot of projects that have helped improve the infrastructure and quality of Spokane, [like] a major renovation of one of their parks that's right there in the city center, with the falls and everything. Really beautiful. But along with that has been this organization, Terrain, that has put artists first, and has promoted artists, and has promoted the arts in Spokane in ways that Spokane has never had before. And so it's been a very welcoming organization. And I guess that has kind of made me see a whole other aspect of the art world that is vastly different from what I experienced and learned about and was kind of raised in in a place like Chicago. And so I have an appreciation for that enthusiasm, that positivity, that welcoming-ness, that Ginger Ewing and Luke Baumgarten have made happen through Terrain in Spokane. And that, for me, connects in a lot of ways to prints, and that they are meant to be something more accessible. And that there isn't this huge financial hurdle to overcome to actually own a print or something. So for me, those things have been just really exciting and positive. And so I've tried to kind of help promote what they're doing as well.

Miranda Metcalf  54:35

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Kevin Haas  54:38

But yeah, I think it's really hard, just being somewhere so isolated, but it seems that for anyone that has the motivation and will, and is kind of seeing the right people and places and things online, they make the connections. And things will happen quite organically, I think. And so even though maybe the possibilities and resources are more limited, I think it's ultimately up to how active you are in finding them, seeking these things out, and building those connections. And so I think Spokane has been a great example of that, that with a really positive attitude, and fewer obstacles that maybe people would have other places, that you can actually do a lot and grow a lot.

Miranda Metcalf  55:27

Yeah, yeah. That reflects, a bit, my own experience having done work in the arts in a city like Bangkok or Sydney. Bangkok's 10 million people, it's New York City. And how there might be more opportunities. But the space for someone to build their own thing is way tighter. There's way less elbow room for that, as opposed to smaller centers, where you may not have that - just from the sheer mass of people - so many exhibition opportunities, or positions opening up, or connections to be made, people coming through town. That's really good in those places, but in a smaller place like Santa Fe, I showed up here, and I want to bring a big print festival here. We're partnering with Print Austin to try and bring Print Santa Fe to town. And everyone's so excited about it here in a way that I know if I had tried to do that in LA, it just would have been like, What? No. I'm busy. So it's kind of apples and oranges, I think, in terms of what you can bring and what you get out. 

Kevin Haas  56:40

Yeah, absolutely.

Miranda Metcalf  56:41

But it has to do with, as you said, your attitude. What is your perspective that you bring to where you are? And can you make the best of where you are?

Kevin Haas  56:48

Yeah, it's the difference between, yeah, a very competitive - elitist - way of approaching that, versus something that's much more supportive and welcoming. 

Miranda Metcalf  57:01

Yeah. 

Kevin Haas  57:01

And I think the art world is based on the former, very much so. But that's what's been great to kind of see over the last 20 years, is how things... so many things have grown up that are outside of that, and don't choose to kind of participate in making art and dealing with art in that way.

Miranda Metcalf  57:25

Yeah. Well, I guess kind of to that end, do you have anything else in the future that you want to shout out while we're chatting? I know you've talked about a couple of exhibitions and collaborations, but anything you missed that you want people to look for?

Kevin Haas  57:41

Yeah, I'll have work at Emerge. It's an art space and arts education organization in Coeur d'Alene, in North Idaho. And so I'll have work there in September, and that's the same time as the Ink Rally, which is a big steamroller printing event that happens every year. So it'll be... usually about 17 artists with four-by-five foot blocks doing that. So I should be there, and hopefully helping kind of coordinate some of that, maybe, this September. And then, like I said, Edie Overturf and I have been curating this exhibition. And I'll be putting out info about that in late fall and early winter. [We'll] probably put together some info about that so there's a way to kind of share what's been happening with that exhibition and the work that's in it. And yeah, I'll have an exhibition in, I guess, September or October of '23. In... oh, jeez... north of Portland a bit, a college up there. But yeah, planning more large kind of wall text pieces for that exhibition as well as a lot of other things, too. So yeah, that's a little bit of my agenda from now until October of 2023.

Miranda Metcalf  59:01

Cool! It sounds very busy! Well, where can people find you and follow you and be reminded of all the exciting things coming up?

Kevin Haas  59:12

Yeah, I've kind of put everything on my website, kevinhaas.com. I don't know if you know this, but one of the things I'm doing is this book forms library. I've been collecting artists books for over 25 years. And so I've got a large collection of artists books. And so I finally got those organized and kind of have a little library space set up in the art building at WSU. So people can come by and take a look at artists books, just message me and let me know. But as far as social media stuff, I'm easy to find. I'm just @printmakingkev on Instagram and Facebook and all that. I don't post a whole lot, but I try to make good posts when I do.

Miranda Metcalf  59:55

Excellent! Great. Well, thanks so much for chatting with me. It's been really fun. And I'm really excited about everything you have coming up. I look forward to seeing about the exhibitions and the events, and yeah, it's just been really great to talk, Kevin.

Kevin Haas  1:00:14

Thank you so much, Miranda. Yeah, it's been so nice to spend this time with you, especially after knowing you, and first encountering you with Davidson, and so on, when you were just starting off, I guess, on the more professional end of things. So it's been great to see how all this has unfolded. And also that you're working with Reinaldo, who's just north of here in Spokane. He's been a great, great presence here in the Inland Northwest. So thank you for the work you're both doing.

Miranda Metcalf  1:00:44

Yes, we are very lucky to have Reinaldo in the print world. We don't deserve Reinaldo. He's the best. Thanks so much, Kevin. I will be in touch.

Kevin Haas  1:00:59

You're very welcome. Thank you, Miranda.

Miranda Metcalf  1:01:02

If you liked today's episode, we have a Patreon where you can help us keep the lights on and get bonus content, like Shoptalk Shorts, where our editor Timothy Pauszek digs deep on materials, processes, and techniques with past guests. And if monetary support isn't in the cards for you right now, you can leave a review for us on your podcast listening app of choice, or buy something from one of our great sponsors and tell them Hello, Print Friend sent you. But as always, the very best way you can support this podcast is by listening and sharing with your fellow print friends around the world. And that's our show for this week. Join me again next week, where my guest will be Julia Curran. We talk about death, bodies, mental health, gender politics in the print world, autoimmune diseases, the American healthcare system, our disembodied culture, and what we can do about it. Believe me when I say you won't want to miss it. This episode, like all episodes, was written and produced by me, Miranda Metcalf, with editing by Timothy Pauszek and music by Joshua Webber. I'll see you next week.