Episode 168 | Cammy York and Edie Overturf

Published November 29, 2022

Transcript

Miranda Metcalf  00:18

Hello, print friends, and welcome. I'm your host, Miranda Metcalf. Each week, I chat with artists who use print based media to do something beyond the expected. This is a bilingual podcast, so if you subscribe to us, you'll be getting episodes in English with me, as well as in Spanish with Reinaldo Gil Zambrano. Together, we speak to printmakers around the globe about their practice and passions in the world of printmaking. Hello, Print Friend is brought to you by Speedball Art Products. In 1915, Ross F. George published the first edition of the Speedball Textbook, which quickly became the superlative resource for artists and letterers of all ages and skill levels. This is a great resource for the gig poster gang or for folks who want to develop their own fonts and letterforms. In celebration of the 105th year anniversary of the first edition's debut, the 25th edition of the Speedball Textbook has a convenient lay flat construction and 120 pages of examples, contributors' works, and innovative technical insight that is sure to inspire and appeal to scribes and enthusiasts across the spectrum of skills. There's a link in the show notes. My guests this week are Cammy York and Edie Overturf from the NewsPrint Podcast. We talk about how and why someone would want to start a printmaking podcast anyway, what it's like doing a roundup of the best print news from around the world, and how they fit their personal practices into all of this. And if you stick around to the end, you'll see we do some scheming for the future. So without further ado, sit back, relax, and prepare to get the news with Cammy and Edie. Hi, Edie. Hi, Cammy. How's it going?

Edie Overturf  02:08

Hi!

Cammy York  02:09

Hi! It's good, how are you?

Edie Overturf  02:11

Doing good. Did we harmonize?

Cammy York  02:13

I think so.

Miranda Metcalf  02:13

You did! Look at this! You podcast, and you're in sync! You're just like... the friends who podcast together! Well, thank you for joining me on Hello, Print Friend. I've been really delighted to get to know you both more, through the work that you do through your own podcast, and then also be more introduced into your own practices through that as well. Because as we know - at least for me - when I'm just on mic, dithering, all kinds of things about myself come out that I didn't plan on sharing!

Edie Overturf  02:13

I think we did.

Cammy York  02:28

Totally.

Miranda Metcalf  02:33

And so I want to make sure we get to talk about what you're doing with that, and the motivations, and also your own practices and how that sort of weaves into what you produce in the print sphere, the print cosmos, the internet world.

Edie Overturf  03:00

Well, thank you so much for having us. This is such a fun crossover. So I know we're both excited to be here and do this.

Miranda Metcalf  03:10

Awesome! So before we get into it, would you both answer the iconic Hello, Print Friend questions, which are the, who you are, where you are, what you do?

Cammy York  03:23

Yeah. You want to go first, Edie?

Edie Overturf  03:25

Sure! I'm Edie Overturf. Where we are: Portland. We're both in Portland. Neither of us are from here, though. And what do I do? Let's see, I teach at Mount Hood Community College, used to teach at University of Minnesota, I do podcasts - one podcast, just the singular. That's enough. - And volunteer with groups like Radical Intersectional Printmakers' Guild and a local goat sanctuary.

Cammy York  03:58

I was gonna say, don't forget the goats.

Edie Overturf  03:59

I've been talking about the goats a lot on my Instagram.

Miranda Metcalf  04:02

I mean, we might just derail right now and just talk about goats. That sounds so great.

Cammy York  04:10

Edie and the goats, what a love story.

Edie Overturf  04:12

I love them.

Cammy York  04:13

I'm Cammy. I'm currently in Edie's house in... is this your office, would you say?  Office/studio, kind of, yeah. I teach - I was gonna say I teach. I mean, I kind of... I teach, and I am the print shop tech, at PNCA. And intaglio is my true love, and that's what I do. And what else do I do? I don't know. I live a life.

Edie Overturf  04:19

Office/studio, kind of.

Miranda Metcalf  04:26

You also do the podcast.

Cammy York  04:42

I have a podcast, I do leather work, all kinds of stuff. I feel like I can't keep my hands off of various crafts. So I end up doing all kinds of stuff all the time.

Miranda Metcalf  04:54

Yeah. And then where are you both from? Where did you grow up, and what are your sort of early art experiences?

Cammy York  05:01

Ooh, good questions.

Edie Overturf  05:03

Am I gonna go first all the time? Okay.

Miranda Metcalf  05:06

Blazing the trail.

Edie Overturf  05:08

Yeah. I'm from Illinois. I'm from the southern tip of Illinois, near Kentucky. So it's kind of more culturally Kentucky than what people think of as Illinois. Six hours from Chicago, so very not Chicago. And I moved to Cal State Chico, moved to Chico for grad school, then moved back to Illinois, moved up to Minnesota, lived there for eight years, and then moved out here four years ago. So I've done a beep-boop-bop between Midwest and West Coast. Yeah. And then... what was the second part of your question?

Miranda Metcalf  05:44

Just your early art experiences and art exposure and like, kind of the role that it [had] in your formative years?

Edie Overturf  05:51

Yeah, there was a lot when I was really young. My mom's best friend was my junior high art teacher.

Cammy York  06:01

That's cool.

Edie Overturf  06:02

Yeah. And I'm still really good friends with her son. And my uncle was an art education student whenever I was really young, so I was like his guinea pig for lesson plans. But I didn't know what printmaking was until I went to college. I didn't even know the word printmaking until I took my first print class. And then I thought I was going to draw, be a drawer, and then took printmaking, and I was like, 'Wait a second. I can make more than one when I do it?'

Cammy York  06:34

What a dream.

Edie Overturf  06:35

Yeah, I saw some opportunity in that. And then just kind of fell in headfirst into printmaking, but did a lot of sculpture and glass work while I was in college, too. So I still do random side things, like sculptural, and pick up random hobbies with people like Cammy saying, 'Hey, you want to come with me to this leather supply shop?' and I'm like, 'Sure, I'll pick up another hobby.'

Miranda Metcalf  07:01

Very nice. So all kinds of making.

Cammy York  07:05

All the making. I'm originally from San Diego, California, and I lived there until moving to Northern California for college. And I went to Sonoma State for undergrad, and then bounced to the University of Iowa for grad school, and then Portland, also four years ago, to live. And my young exposure to art was there from the beginning. Both of my parents are artists. My dad is a commercial photographer, and my mom has kind of done everything. Like, when I was born, she had her own graphic design business. And then when I was young, she was a children's book illustrator, and then just a painter. She's done all kinds of stuff, which has been cool to see. And I was first exposed to printmaking when my mom was doing an art fair and her booth was next to one of her friends who would do these beautiful, kind of delicate, figurative linocuts that then she would hand-watercolor. And I remember being in there and being like, 'What is this? I like this.' And so then I went out and bought my first little Speedball carving tools and my little lino block, and spent a lot of time just holed up in my childhood bedroom carving these little lino blocks and printing them, like, on my bedroom door. And on the back of my sketchbook. And all over the place, not knowing that I was doing printmaking, but also, just doing printmaking.

Miranda Metcalf  08:50

Totally, yeah.

Cammy York  08:50

And then I thought I was gonna go to college for sculpture, because I have always enjoyed doing sculptural stuff. But then I was like, on a whim, visiting Sonoma State and walked into the print shop and met Kurt Kemp, who either is still teaching there or has recently retired, I'm not sure. But I just had this feeling that that's where I was supposed to be. And so I trusted that. And then I took an anxiety nap on one of their fields, and then woke up and thought, 'Alright, I'm committing.' And so that was my first step into more serious printmaking. And I learned copperplate etching from Kurt and have basically never looked back since then. I've done all forms of printmaking, but copperplate etching is just... yeah, my true love.

Miranda Metcalf  09:46

Yeah, I showed Kurt Kemp at Davidson Galleries when I worked there. And so I've actually gotten to see his work in person, and it is some serious etching.

Cammy York  09:56

Yes. It's wild.

Miranda Metcalf  09:58

Like, large scale, multi-plate, collage elements. Yeah, that man is not effing around with etching.

Cammy York  10:07

It's true! Yeah, he does wild shit, and it was definitely cool for me to learn under him, and him to be my first print dad, kind of. Yeah, I love that dude. He was a good teacher. He was also a hardass, but a good teacher.

Miranda Metcalf  10:27

I mean, I think people, often, who have that extremely high standard for themselves... there's no way to turn that off. I think it just goes out into the world. I think about that a lot with trying to be a more empathetic, generous person. And learning about how I have to be able to extend grace to myself in the same areas I want to for other people. But like, I really... it'll be like, oh, if I hold myself to a weird perfectionism level, I can't make that different for someone else. And so, yeah, I could see it's... as much as I wish I could, it's like, unfortunately, we have to be nice to ourselves. I don't know

Cammy York  11:09

Yeah, that's true. That is so true.

Miranda Metcalf  11:12

And was Eileen Macdonald at Chico when you were there?

Edie Overturf  11:16

Yeah, yeah. I actually have a longer history with Eileen. Where I went to undergrad in Illinois, she was a grad student.

Miranda Metcalf  11:25

Oh, wow.

Edie Overturf  11:26

And then she got the job in Chico. And I only applied to colleges on the West Coast, because I wanted to get out of the Midwest. So I ended up with her again. And she was my mentor. She was very young at the time, and I was a baby. So, yeah... she has extra high standards of craft with students, too.

Miranda Metcalf  11:50

For sure.

Edie Overturf  11:51

Which is really like... I mean, I had that a little when I was in undergrad, but then it's like, you're in grad school. Bring it!

Cammy York  11:59

Yeah. Get your shit right.

Miranda Metcalf  12:02

Yeah. Eileen, I've actually asked her to come on the podcast, and she said no.

Edie Overturf  12:07

No! Aw, Eileen!

Miranda Metcalf  12:07

Because she's a very modest person. And I think you know this, that she - I don't know if it's her, or if it's being Scottish. But she just has this sense of, like, nope, you just do a really good job, and you don't need to tell everyone about it. You know? Kind of an attitude.

Edie Overturf  12:28

I've known a lot of Scots people. I don't think it's Scottish.

Miranda Metcalf  12:36

It's just Eileen. So who knows, maybe we'll get her at some point. Maybe she'll listen to this. And I'll tag her in it so she can hear that she's being publicly shamed.

Edie Overturf  12:46

Get your ass on here and talk about what you do!

Miranda Metcalf  12:49

Exactly!

Edie Overturf  12:50

She pours so much energy into her teaching. And I mean, she still makes time for her work. But every time I hear her talk about all the stuff she's doing, I was like, 'I would go insane.'

Miranda Metcalf  13:02

Yeah. I actually got to go out to jury a show, and to work with some of the grad students, when I was at Davidson. And I got to see her little setup at Chico, and was just so impressed with how much she's taken on being the steward of that department, and making it really good. Truly through blood, sweat, and tears. It's really impressive. So come on the podcast and shout out yourself, Eileen! So how did you two meet? When did your friendship love story begin?

Edie Overturf  13:38

We did the thing that people tell you not to do. You don't meet people off the internet. We were both moving here at the same time, essentially. And we both had put it out on Facebook, like, 'We're moving to Portland. What are the printmakers there -' what are? Who are.

Miranda Metcalf  13:56

Mostly homosapiens.

Edie Overturf  13:58

Yeah, mostly.

Cammy York  13:59

Mostly!

Edie Overturf  14:00

Erica Adams was the person that connected us on Facebook.

Cammy York  14:04

Bless her.

Edie Overturf  14:05

Yeah. We became Facebook friends, and then Instagram friends, and then got each others' phone numbers.

Cammy York  14:10

Texting friends and then real life friends.

Edie Overturf  14:12

Yeah. We made sure that neither of us were crazy before we... yeah. Not a dangerous person.

Miranda Metcalf  14:20

Not a danger to herself or others.

Edie Overturf  14:22

Yeah.

Cammy York  14:24

And then our love blossomed from there.

Miranda Metcalf  14:28

And then were you working collaboratively at all before NewsPrint Pod? Or was this kind of the first big undertaking?

Cammy York  14:37

This was our first big undertaking, I think.  We had schemed on doing... on creating a, like, critique group for a couple of artists, but then COVID hit, and that kind of fizzled. So this is our first... yeah, like, large collab. Right?

Edie Overturf  14:39

Yeah. Yeah. And we brainstormed things, and there's things that, if we were were to look through our notes, we'd be like, 'What were we thinking? That was so grandiose! That's for maybe someday. Temper your expectations.'

Cammy York  15:10

Having a podcast, as you know, can really be like a second full time job.

Miranda Metcalf  15:14

Oh, my gosh. I have never felt more seen than when you two said that on a recent episode. I think it was maybe the one before last... when you both were like, 'Yeah, no, it's a lot of work.' I think I was in the car and I was audibly saying, 'Thank you!' It is! And it's really fun and it's really rewarding. But I mean, it's a lot of work! And I think - I don't know, there's probably a bunch of jobs like this, but it feels like it's a lot of invisible work. Because you put this thing out into the world, and it could easily just be seen like, 'Oh, they just had a chat with someone! How hard could that be?' You know? ...But it's a lot more than that. But I think in a way, it's this weird conundrum where the ideal is for it to look a bit effortless. For it to just feel fun and light. And that's great. But everything that goes into making it feel fun and light is... yeah, can be a lot. It can be a lot of stuff.

Cammy York  15:30

Yeah, absolutely.

Miranda Metcalf  15:52

Yeah. But it's fun to do it with someone. I would definitely not be doing it this long - and you have some people that work with you, right? Because you couldn't do everything by yourself. Yeah, so I've got Tim, my husband, [who] is definitely the silent support. We used to talk about it, how it's like, if I'm like the frontman, he's like my guitar! There'd be no consistency without him. He does editing, and then also, he's a practicing printmaker, which I'm not. And so he contributes a ton of insight in that way, in terms of just, what should the product be? And who would be interesting to talk to? And most of my experience in printmaking has been curating and writing and researching. I wrote my thesis in printmaking, all of that in art history, not art making. And so it's really helpful to have a maker's voice and a maker's creative input on what this actual finished product looks like. And then Reinaldo Gil Zambrano does the Spanish episodes. So we do one English episode and one Spanish episode every week. Which is super fun, because that just expands the audience exponentially for who the podcast reaches, and that sort of thing. So yeah, definitely not doing it alone, either. And it's helpful even just to have someone you can look at and be like, 'This is really hard, right? This is hard.' Which can be really good. So did you - was it always a podcast from day one? Did you know, or did you kind of bat around other ideas?

Cammy York  17:55

It was a podcast from day one.

Edie Overturf  17:58

Like, newsy from day one.

Cammy York  17:59

Yeah, newsy from day one. Because I kind of brainstormed the idea when I was bored at my old job. And I had subscribed to the Google alert about printmaking. So once a week, I would get print news sent to me. And I was like, 'This is kind of a crazy way to be receiving print news. Like, it can be better than this. I can figure something out.'

Miranda Metcalf  18:00

Yeah. I've got that Google alert too. And you get some wacky shit.

Cammy York  18:32

There's some wild shit!

Miranda Metcalf  18:33

Yeah, not print related in any way. You get like, random people's obituaries. It's not a good way to get the print news. This is correct.

Cammy York  18:46

Yeah. It's funny though. One time, I was thumbing through it, and Edie came up, and I was like, 'Oh, Edie, look! You're on the print news!' But, yeah, so I was zoning off, daydreaming at my old job. And then I was like, 'What would I call something like that?' And I was like, 'Duh, dude! NewsPrint! Hellooo!' Nothing is sillier than that. So I reached out to Edie and I was like, 'Do you want to do this? Should we do this together?' And then just kind of went from there. Edie, luckily, is a website wizard and whipped that website together. And I was like, all right, cool! Also, Edie's such a go-getter. She's kind of the engine behind NewsPrint Pod, I think.

Edie Overturf  19:32

Oh, come on! No!

Cammy York  19:33

No, I really - Edie, yeah, yes, I think so.

Edie Overturf  19:36

No. I don't think so.

Cammy York  19:37

Okay, well, anyway, together we're an engine.

Edie Overturf  19:44

Two pistons.

Cammy York  19:45

Two pistons! Two pistons over here. So that's kind of how it happened. And we just got together and did some brainstorming, and then kind of just went from there.

Edie Overturf  19:54

It was really fun to do the brainstorming. It was like, okay, thematically, episodes, things about this, this, this, and this. Didn't even think about people to interview. It was more content-based. Like, the last one we did was nontoxic ["Is anything REALLY nontoxic?!"], but it was in our top five episodes.

Cammy York  20:11

Sure, yeah. There was a lot of stuff in that one.

Edie Overturf  20:13

And there was a lot of shit we didn't know. We were like, 'How do we host this? What do we do it on? How do we get it on Apple pods?' Like, we didn't know anything.

Miranda Metcalf  20:25

Were you big podcast listeners in your private lives?

Edie Overturf  20:29

Yeah.

Miranda Metcalf  20:29

Okay.

Cammy York  20:30

Yes, I love a pod. Like, that's how I start every day, is I get up, and I'm bumping around in my house, half-awake. And then I put in headphones and start listening to a pod. And that's how I get going.

Edie Overturf  20:43

And I do like what you called - I listen to a lot of the "buddy pods," where -

Miranda Metcalf  20:47

Yeah.

Edie Overturf  20:48

- And if they are informational, it's like, one person does the research and then presents it to the other person to get the cold read.

Miranda Metcalf  20:55

So good.

Edie Overturf  20:55

Yeah, so I like that kind of banter-y tangental... tangential? See, there's a lot of times I don't say words right, so. You can just Google it, you know what I mean? So we kind of thought about that kind of format. And we were looking at what you do, and what all the other printmaking podcasts do, and then trying to find, like, what else can we contribute?

Cammy York  21:20

Yeah. How do we put another puzzle piece in this puzzle?

Edie Overturf  21:25

Yeah.

Miranda Metcalf  21:25

And so can you speak to just the format of the show? So if anyone listening hasn't heard before, and they're trying to get an idea of what it looks like - because sometimes you've got a guest. And then sometimes you've got just a subject, like you said, like nontoxic. And then you also chat a bit at the beginning, where you catch each other up on each other's lives, which is very cute. And then talk about, what's the print news? And also, how do you get the print news to give to the people?

Cammy York  21:56

Good questions all around. I think when we were figuring out how to format it, we loosely wanted it to be kind of like little news segments. So our first one is always called "Catching Up With Us." That's like, what our Google Doc title is. And then it's "Print News." And we... there's just some different spots you can find print news, like I always find very solid things at the end of the Frogman's newsletter that goes out. Oh, my gosh...

Edie Overturf  22:27

CaFe [Call For Entry].

Cammy York  22:28

CaFE, yes.

Edie Overturf  22:30

Cammy doesn't read the emails, so I do.

Cammy York  22:32

I delete them. I'm really blanking on this right now.

Edie Overturf  22:37

Instagram!

Cammy York  22:38

Oh my god. Yeah. Instagram for sure.

Edie Overturf  22:40

Instagram's huge.

Cammy York  22:40

Because printmakers will be like, look at this cool thing! And all of you should do it! That's super rad. Instagram's a huge one.

Edie Overturf  22:41

Sometimes Facebook, like, printmaker/professor networks, or groups like that, people will put out the calls that are at their local school or whatever. So that's really helpful. But I feel like Instagram, just save the posts, and then try to find the links to put in.

Cammy York  23:08

Yeah, it's a lot of compiling stuff from different places, and putting it in one place that's hopefully helpful to people.

Edie Overturf  23:17

And we kind of thought about a concept of... with it being news based, people needed to go to a place to see where to find the information, not us just talking about it and then them have to Google it. So the website became kind of a landing page for a lot of information. And we were both really big fans of Printeresting. So thinking about how that site functioned -

Cammy York  23:43

RIP.

Miranda Metcalf  23:44

Yeah!

Edie Overturf  23:47

I miss the articles! The articles were so good. Yeah, and that was something we were thinking about - 'Ooh, we can pay our friends to go to openings and write a review!' And all these things that we hope to still do.

Cammy York  24:02

Lofty. Yeah.

Miranda Metcalf  24:04

I'd love to hear - I'm always really curious about the lifecycle of a project, being someone who takes on too many projects, and what... you spoke a little bit to some of the goals of actually having reporters out in the world, essentially. What were some of the ideas that, this is what we can do at the beginning, and then of course, reality sets in - as it always does - when you realize your human limitations and your time limitations and your money limitations. So what are some of those goals that you had at the beginning, and then ones that have stayed on floating around your brain that you still are hoping to get to, from those earlier ambitions?

Cammy York  24:42

Yeah, well, definitely being able to pay our friends to be reporters. And I think we'd still like to do that. But we have truly sunk about $200 into this podcast total. Because we both work in academia. And honestly... pay academics more! That's all I'm saying. Yeah, we're ballin' on a budget with this podcast. And we were thinking about becoming... what is it? A nonprofit...

Miranda Metcalf  25:11

501-C3?

Cammy York  25:12

Yeah, 501-C3. And you know, had meetings about that and stuff. And also trying to do everything during a pandemic is also another layer of crazy shit.

Miranda Metcalf  25:23

Were you in the middle of the pandemic when you took this on? What year was this when you actually launched?

Edie Overturf  25:28

Yep. A year ago.

Miranda Metcalf  25:28

Oh, my gosh!

Edie Overturf  25:29

Yeah, we just hit a year, like, two episodes ago.

Cammy York  25:33

Yeah, I don't even know if we had been vaxed yet. So we were kind of just like...

Edie Overturf  25:40

'You're careful? I'm careful. Okay.'

Cammy York  25:42

'Whose air have you been through?'

Miranda Metcalf  25:44

Yeah! Oh, my gosh. Okay, wow. So that's a lot. That's a lot, to be like, 'I'm under a fair amount of psychological stress. And I would like more psychological stress!' So yeah, you were saying, reporters? Is there anything else?

Edie Overturf  26:02

I think... there was one thing that... we never even got to the point of flushing it out. But having a database of people that are art writers, or people that like writing about art and doing reviews, and then being able to connect someone. Like, if someone's having a show, being able to connect them with those people that are close enough to do a review for them. Which...

Miranda Metcalf  26:27

That would be so cool.

Edie Overturf  26:28

That would be great. But it's a big endeavor, logistics-wise. Yeah, it's like, one of us would need to get part-time pay to do that. But I love that idea still. We'll get there eventually.

Cammy York  26:42

Yeah, we're definitely still cooking. Still figuring things out. We're a baby podcast.

Miranda Metcalf  26:47

Totally.

Edie Overturf  26:48

Yeah, we're little babies. But we were hoping, I think, to do two a month, and then realized that that was unrealistic, just with our schedules and recording together.

Miranda Metcalf  27:00

That database with art writers would be amazing, because as I think many people know - not definitely breaking any ground by saying this - art writing has just been so devastated with the internet, because it just... the publishing industry has been completely gutted and turned upside down. And so there's this model, too, in which people - it's changing a bit, for sure - but of people just giving away their writing. Like, [there's] no longer... any model for being compensated for it. And so that just made everything fall apart a bit, I think. And people are finding ways back. I think Substack has been doing really good work in getting artists compensated for the ideas that we're putting out into the world. But as an art historian, I think I feel this... there used to be such a robust other side of the art world going on, which was that classic, the "art critic" who could make someone's career by giving them a positive review. That doesn't seem to really exist anymore. I know in New York, there's, I'm sure, still some structure for it. But outside of that, it's really difficult to see. And that conversation, I think, that happens publicly between makers and receivers, is really hamstringed without having a platform for art writing that's sustainable at all, it seems like.

Edie Overturf  28:32

Right, right. I've only had one experience with the head of fellowship, where they had someone come in and write about our work for the catalog. And it was an awesome experience, because - it's like you said before we were recording - that sometimes when you're talking to someone in the moment, you say something that you didn't know you knew.

Miranda Metcalf  28:53

Yeah.

Edie Overturf  28:54

And it just kind of comes out. So in that conversation, it's really helpful. And then someone else distilling your work in their language is often really helpful.

Miranda Metcalf  29:06

It's so funny to hear you talk about the way - it actually, it sounds like therapy. Like, 'You say something that you knew was true, but you didn't know it until you said it, and then someone reflects it back to you -' like, yeah, it sounds like art therapy. But not that kind of art therapy, like therapy for your art! Which is so useful.

Cammy York  29:31

Absolutely.

Edie Overturf  29:32

Yeah, I used to love reading reviews of other shows, too, but I hated reading the scathing ones. Just because it just made me anxious.

Miranda Metcalf  29:42

Well, there's no point... you don't need to be mean.

Edie Overturf  29:44

No. Constructive!

Miranda Metcalf  29:46

Constructive, yeah. There were a few - who shall not be named - art critics that I've run into in my time in the gallery world, in different cities, that were just these sort of... rattling old dinosaurs of angry men whose careers are slipping out from underneath them. And they were just so miserable! And they would write miserable stuff about someone's show. And it just seemed so out of place, and not about the work sometimes. And I think part of that comes from, again, that there's just not space for writers to be compensated in a huge, meaningful way. And so, anyway, that'd be super cool. Just put aside some extra time, just do some more free labor, and...

Cammy York  30:35

Yeah. Gotta love that free labor!

Miranda Metcalf  30:39

Yeah, we just, as women, we can't get enough of it, you know?

Cammy York  30:43

Oh my god! Say less, girlfriend!

Miranda Metcalf  30:50

Yeah, yeah! And so when you're thinking about the future of the pod - we talked about some of the early goals that you'd still like to see - but in the more immediate future, who are some of your dream guests? People you'd really just love to chat with, or subjects that you'd like to take on that you haven't had a chance to yet?

Cammy York  31:09

Man, that's a good question.

Edie Overturf  31:11

Yeah, we are kind of in a moment where we went through a lot of our wish list from when we started this just a year ago. And I feel like we had a few people that were like, oh, for this topic, it would be nice to talk to this person for a short period of time. But we haven't started our new wish list. But I feel like there's... like, me just spitballing - we're just going to live brainstorm! - I would love to talk about academic structures and their tendency to not provide a safe work environment. Not necessarily physically safe, but like, mental health safe. And creating some sort of boundaries or help - like, I am not professional at this, but I'm just getting to the point where I'm like, 'Okay, I am dropping that thing that I was doing, because I'm realizing that I am not doing well.' So something around those lines. That's probably going to be therapy for me to record.

Cammy York  32:28

I would love to tackle that, too. Because it's interesting working at PNCA, and one of my buddies is an adjunct professor there, and has been adjuncting there for 10 years.

Miranda Metcalf  32:38

Yeah, oh, my god.

Cammy York  32:41

And like, we talk about it, and it's like - he doesn't even get health care. And he's been there for a decade! That's dumb as shit. And I have an issue with it.

Miranda Metcalf  32:50

And the lack of stability semester to semester, that's, 'Yeah, I've been here for 10 years, but am I going to be here for 10 years in one semester? I don't know! No commitment to me!' It's really messed up. Yeah.

Cammy York  33:03

Super gross. On a different note, I would love to talk to the High Priestess Witch of Printmaking, Kathryn Polk herself!

Edie Overturf  33:16

I knew you were gonna say that!

Cammy York  33:17

Every time I even think about her, I just fangirl. I love her so much. She changed my life when she came to the University of Iowa, and hung out for a week and had a studio visit with me. And then she and I traded prints and I will simply never get over it. So I would love to talk to her. She's so great. She's so great.

Edie Overturf  33:39

I think another person - I just want to talk to her - Leslie Diuguid. And I know you interviewed her.

Miranda Metcalf  33:45

Oh, yeah.

Edie Overturf  33:45

But she was involved in a webinar that MAPC put on recently that I went to. And her energy is just so fun. She seems so fun.

Cammy York  33:58

Yeah.

Edie Overturf  33:59

And her project in that super small - like, she runs her print shop out of a super small space in New York. It's very impressive. Who else...?

Miranda Metcalf  34:10

Yeah, speaking of people who make it look effortless, I feel like Leslie makes it look effortless and extremely stylish at the same time.

Edie Overturf  34:21

Yeah, totally.

Cammy York  34:22

One of my wish lists that we did last season was talking to Kate Bingaman-Burt, who runs Outlet in Portland. She's so cool. And sometimes I just marvel at the energy she has, because she's just doing everything all at once and raising a cool-looking child! And it just blows me away. So yeah, that was a dream interview. That was super cool.

Edie Overturf  34:23

Yeah, it was pretty fun.

Cammy York  34:31

And this is obviously a dream too! This is rad.

Edie Overturf  34:59

Yeah!

Miranda Metcalf  35:00

Aw, good! Yeah, I feel such a kindred spirit when I get to talk to other podcasters, with the joy and the pain that they know. And just putting it out in the world - it's actually, one of the questions I had for you, too, was about, basically, why do we do this? Help me figure it out!

Edie Overturf  35:18

I wish everyone could see your posture. Just, like, head back, 'Why?'

Miranda Metcalf  35:26

Why?!

Cammy York  35:28

I feel like my knee jerk reaction to that is because printmakers are inherently community based. And cultivating podcasts for each other is another form of love and support for the community. So I feel like that's probably why we are just down to put in the effort for each other. Because we love each other.

Edie Overturf  35:50

Yeah, yeah. That's a very good explanation. I don't think I can top that.

Cammy York  35:54

Thank you so much.

Miranda Metcalf  35:59

Yeah, I think that's a very good answer. And one that feels right to me, too. Because it's, as you say, it's a lot of work. But anytime I hear any stories about printmakers getting connected because of an episode I did, it fills my cup to make me do 100 more episodes. Like when someone says, 'Oh, I heard Marco Sanchez on that episode, and I invited him to come to this residency, and then he met this person, and now they're doing a collaborative project together!' Any of those kinds of stories is just... that's it. That's peak fulfillment to me, is the idea of something else being birthed into the world because of my project that I took on because I was moving to Australia and I was terrified of not talking to printmakers ever again, basically. That's how this got started. Yeah, it's really nice. It's really nice. What are some of your favorite non-printmaking podcasts, as podcasters? For when people listen to this, and they listen to you all, and they still have 30 more in the edition to go, and they're on their little Airpods right now. What can people go look up?

Cammy York  37:16

Okay, well, I can rattle off a bunch. Well, Edie and I both really love drag queens, which we've talked about probably on every episode of NewsPrint. I know we both listen to The Bald and The Beautiful, which is Trixie and Katya's podcast. They're not 100% consistent about when they put out episodes, but they're always super funny. I also really love Sibling Rivalry, which Monet X Change and Bob the Drag Queen do together. They are very consistent, and they have kind of little offshoot projects they do together that they put out. Some people are not a huge fan of that, because it's like, they kind of play fight with each other a lot. And some people are like, 'That's too confrontational!' But it's really just based in love and super funny. I also recently found Crime Junkie, which I love. I do like the true crime pods. So Crime Junkie's a good one. My Favorite Murder, a classic. What about you? Those are my top four, probably.

Edie Overturf  38:20

I started listening to Maintenance Phase, which is - do you listen to it?

Miranda Metcalf  38:24

Oh, I love it. I love it. And when you were talking about someone explaining to someone else cold, like, a topic or something that happened, I was thinking, Maintenance Phase does that so well. Yeah.

Edie Overturf  38:33

Yeah. And then, You're Wrong About is also a similar kind of format. And then informational ones, like - what's it called? - Every Little Thing?

Miranda Metcalf  38:46

Oh, yeah, I've heard of that one.

Edie Overturf  38:47

Which is, it's short. It's like, people call in with questions. And at first I was like, 'Just Google it!' But they dive into it in such an interesting way. And the way they present the information, they call the person back and have a conversation with an expert.

Cammy York  39:03

Oh, that's fun.

Edie Overturf  39:04

And it's just like - I mean, I loved Radiolab a lot. So that entertaining kind of way of presenting facts... and Ologies is like that too for me.

Miranda Metcalf  39:16

Ologies, yeah.

Edie Overturf  39:18

Entertaining, funny, goofy, but giving me chunks of information to chew on.

Cammy York  39:24

I also really love Normal Gossip, which is a relatively newer podcast, but it's like, people write in with their average, daily drama. That's just not... it's not world-ending, but it's very funny. And the host reads the write up of the drama that's happening in someone's life to someone else. And they react and talk about it. And they also kind of break down what it means to gossip, and how that's a protective part of our culture. So they get into gossip theory, which is kind of fun and interesting.

Miranda Metcalf  40:00

Ooh, I like the sound of that.

Cammy York  40:02

Yeah, it's a really good podcast. I very much loved that one as well.

Edie Overturf  40:08

Yeah. Why Won't You Date Me is one of my top ones, too.

Cammy York  40:11

Nicole Byer? Yeah.

Edie Overturf  40:12

Nicole Byer.

Cammy York  40:13

She's great.

Edie Overturf  40:14

I love her! I love her so much.

Miranda Metcalf  40:18

It's funny how you really -

Cammy York  40:21

Do you have favorites as well?

Miranda Metcalf  40:22

I do! I do, I mean, Maintenance Phase and You're Wrong About are probably ones that are even in my re-listen-to camp, where I'll go back and I'll be like, I didn't actually feel like I got everything out of it that I could. Maybe because I was laughing over some of the information. That could be part of it. I really love all three seasons of Last Day, which is... it's very heavy, the first one is about opioid overdoses, the second season is about death by suicide, and the third season is about guns in the US. But they're just so incredibly empathetically researched. And it's really, like with guns, she goes and talks to people on both sides of the issue. And it's just a really interesting way of exploring really complex, contemporary, big issues in the United States. So again, it's entertaining, even though it sounds very dark. The woman who runs it, her brother died of an opioid overdose. And he was a comedy writer on huge shows like The Big Bang Theory and Community. And so she's very funny as well, and just comes from a very funny family. And so there's something about, like, they're processing everything. And so I'll relisten to that one, for sure. I love Noble Blood, which is a podcast that is all about messy historical noble drama. So [from] Vietnamese princesses who lead an army that pushes out the invading Chinese colonizers, to cousins having affairs in castles in Frankfurt. Anyway, it's really good, again, super well-researched. And then I also love You Must Remember This, which is a woman who's a professor somewhere in the University of California system. But it's all early Hollywood drama that's, like, really sloppy and really good. And really interesting, and really seen through contemporary lenses of critical race theory and feminism and all of that. So she reframes it and really puts what was going on [into] contemporary settings. If I had unlimited time and resources, I would love to do more reporting, almost investigating type, or almost [a] This American Life style storytelling version of a podcast. To just go and tell a story about printmaking, I think, would be incredible. Just find a studio, and just tell the story of the studio coming to be and how it happened. You know, produce it, and put the music under it, and do all of that. Because I love how a lot of podcasts I just listed are that, where they're just, 'I'm going to tell you a story.' It's so cozy, and it's really well put together, and you get taken on this journey. And that would be a super big dream if I had unlimited time and resources for Hello, Print Friend.

Cammy York  43:25

That would be a rad segment. I could definitely see you doing that.

Miranda Metcalf  43:28

Oh, yeah. That would be so cool.

Edie Overturf  43:28

Yeah. I was just having a little spark - you can edit this out if it's stupid, because I'm just word salad-ing an idea - of going to a city and looking at the history of printmaking in that city... ...maybe thematically, older [printmaking] - it's mostly Midwest - but how it was used in industry, and how it was used in academia, both, or in the fine arts world -

Cammy York  43:56

That'd be sick as hell. I feel like the three of us are making a podcast right now.

Miranda Metcalf  44:02

Yes!

Cammy York  44:04

We're all gonna get in a print bus and go on a tour one summer, and we're gonna have the three of us recording this podcast!

Edie Overturf  44:11

That sounds really fun. I want to do this.

Miranda Metcalf  44:15

I'm trying to think of a joke where I'm like, I'm Ira Glass, Edie is Terry Gross, but I couldn't think of a third super famous NPR producer. But let's see... Jonathan Goldstein! There we go.

Cammy York  44:35

I love this idea.

Miranda Metcalf  44:36

I like it!

Edie Overturf  44:36

I don't feel like I'm serious enough to be any of those people.

Cammy York  44:40

Oh, my god, I'm so goofy. I could not be an Ira. You know?

Miranda Metcalf  44:46

This could be really good. Get some grant funding together, and maybe we'll make some shows.

Cammy York  44:51

Print girls on the road!

Miranda Metcalf  44:53

Print girl party.

Cammy York  44:54

I could see this happening.

Edie Overturf  44:55

Let's do it.

Miranda Metcalf  44:55

I can see it happening. We'll have to talk more off air. Hmm, make a note of it.

Edie Overturf  45:03

Yeah!

Cammy York  45:05

Yeah.

Miranda Metcalf  45:06

I'm curious, as podcasters who are also makers, do you find - how do those two sides of - because I do consider podcasting a creative practice in its own way. It is making something, it's researching, it's performance. I mean, it is a creative output. How do those aspects of your own individual practices influence each other? If at all?

Cammy York  45:32

Well, for me, at least, I edit the episodes, so that was an exercise of teaching myself how to do that. And it's a continual exercise of teaching myself how to do that, because I didn't really reach out to any friends who also podcast before diving in, and ask, 'Hey, how do you do this?' I just kind of went for it. Since then, I've gotten some advice, which has been helpful. But yeah, I really think when you go to art school, the main thing that you come away with - or at least what it was for me - was that I know that I can teach myself to do anything.

Miranda Metcalf  46:08

Oh, nice.

Cammy York  46:09

That's been the most helpful thing I think I've ever learned in my entire life. So podcasting fell under that. It was like, this is just another aspect of my creative practice where I'm teaching myself how to do something, and I'm just gonna commit to it and go for it and see where it goes. And also commit to growing with it.

Edie Overturf  46:32

Mm-hmm. That's important.

Cammy York  46:33

Yeah. What about you, Edie?

Edie Overturf  46:35

I think about my students a lot whenever we're coming up with ideas, or your students, or other people's students. Like, how much are they getting out of this? What are they looking for? Thinking back to when I was 19, 20 - if podcasts existed then -

Miranda Metcalf  46:54

Right.

Cammy York  46:56

God.

Edie Overturf  46:56

Why did I say that?

Cammy York  46:58

I'm just kidding.

Edie Overturf  46:58

Yeah. No, I know... yeah, I think they all kind of mingle together. So like, I see an opportunity, and I'm like, 'Oh, I would like to do that. Oh, I would also like to tell other people about that!' And kind of feeding that, because I've always felt super strongly about giving back to that, however much I can. So whether I could be some member at large for SGC's board, or donating something for MAPC, or whatever, trying to find ways to give back. And sometimes those opportunities don't fit into your lifestyle or schedule or whatever, so this is a way that we can do that also. Yeah, and I think that makes me feel more supported in doing my own work, in a weird way. I feel like, okay, I've done my part to keep this engine going and keep giving back to my people. And then I feel comforted in that, to go do my own work by myself.

Miranda Metcalf  48:07

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And so what is on the horizon for NewsPrint Pod? Maybe anything that's coming up that you want to shout out, or you want people to look for, or you want just... I don't know.

Edie Overturf  48:23

We're gonna be at MAPC.

Miranda Metcalf  48:25

Awesome!

Edie Overturf  48:26

We don't have our own table, but...

Cammy York  48:26

But we're scheming on little merchn things to give out to people. So that's cute. I mean, yeah, truly, MAPC is around the corner, which is wild. And I am so excited to see people. Are you going to be there?

Edie Overturf  48:39

Are you going?

Miranda Metcalf  48:40

No. I can't.

Edie Overturf  48:41

No? Bummer!

Miranda Metcalf  48:43

I know. The gallery that I work for is opening a second space that's launching that weekend. And it's just, there's some things I can get out of, and some things I can't. But I'll be, you know, greedily watching everyone's Instagram stories from afar.

Edie Overturf  49:03

Yeah. We've been talking about going to the RMPA in Spokane, because we can drive there.

Cammy York  49:12

So cool. I'm definitely gonna go.

Edie Overturf  49:16

Now I want to really propose that idea about wrestling.

Miranda Metcalf  49:19

What's the wrestling idea?

Edie Overturf  49:23

We came up with it while we were recording, and I was like, 'Maybe that's how I need to get my ideas out, is while being recorded!' It's like... I thought about it more when we were camping and hiking, and I was just talking - I talk a lot when I'm hiking. And it's some sort of wrestling event where people can represent their favorite printmaking process. And then you can either thumb wrestle, arm wrestle, or actually wrestle depending on your level of comfort.

Cammy York  49:49

And you have to dress up like your process.

Edie Overturf  49:51

But I had an idea with that, because I was like, people are not going to bring costumes. So I can make capes. And then you can have these big foam brayers, or foam squeegees, and you can hit each other with them.

Cammy York  50:04

I love that idea.

Edie Overturf  50:04

And... I don't know. I just thought, for Spokane, I have a truck. I can put all the stuff in the car.

Miranda Metcalf  50:11

Amazing.

Edie Overturf  50:12

I don't know if they - I haven't even seen a call for anything at that, but...

Cammy York  50:22

I'm gonna dress up as a ghost print and just run around -

Edie Overturf  50:23

You're gonna be the ghost print?! I didn't even think of that!

Cammy York  50:25

...just run around and wreak havoc.

Miranda Metcalf  50:28

Ghost print is so good!

Cammy York  50:30

Wear a tarlatan over my head.

Edie Overturf  50:31

Don't forget about me... yeah, we need to fully flush this out.

Cammy York  50:41

Let's have a meeting.

Edie Overturf  50:42

Okay.

Miranda Metcalf  50:43

Yeah, I've got two thoughts, the first one is that I love it. I love that. And second, if you're serious, you need to reach out to Ali Norman. Because she has done backyard wrestling. So she has paved a pathway for wrestling as performance art.

Cammy York  51:03

How have I not heard of this at all?

Miranda Metcalf  51:04

She could definitely, I think, offer some insights. And then - I'm just thinking about it - so I, as a high schooler, was very into jiu-jitsu. I went to a jiu-jitsu dojo six times a week, and the only thing that I've really taken away from it is that I'm really good at wrestling now. When you play-wrestle with bed partners - at least I do - it comes up, and everyone's always like, 'Why are you so strong?'

Cammy York  51:36

That's so funny. Oh my god.

Miranda Metcalf  51:37

And so when you said wrestling, I was like, 'Oh, I would be all over that.' I would just be... like, the competitive nature in me, of knowing that this is something that I'm kind of good at, I was like, 'I am gonna pin a motherfucker.'

Cammy York  51:53

Hell yeah! I love that!

Edie Overturf  51:57

Alright!

Miranda Metcalf  52:01

Yeah, it's... [cracks knuckles].

Cammy York  52:02

Whoa, she's cracking knuckles!

Edie Overturf  52:04

That was not added, people. That was not an added audio. That was her actual knuckles.

Cammy York  52:09

Today we learned that Miranda's tough as hell!

Miranda Metcalf  52:15

Surprise! Yeah.

Cammy York  52:18

That's so funny. Oh my god.

Miranda Metcalf  52:21

That's really good. And so when is RMPA?

Cammy York  52:23

Miranda's like, I'm putting it on my calendar now.

Edie Overturf  52:27

It's in April also, but I think it's the beginning of April. I believe.

Miranda Metcalf  52:31

Okay, you can easily do that and the Print Santa Fe print Fair, which we're calling "Fistful of Prints," for the Southwest theme. And so yeah, you can easily do both! You can wrestle, and then you can come - maybe you'll still have a black eye - to man your table. Very cool. Well, you two, this has been just completely delightful. I am really excited that we got to connect, and I'm really excited about the idea of maybe doing some more in-depth podcast, print-related stuff together. Because it's, as we were talking about off air, there's this ecosystem of print pods now, which is great. And so we've got history, curatorial, the buddy pod, we've got straight up interviews, which is what I do. But there's not that corner yet of that in-depth, researched, produced, This American Life style - This Print Life. Which is the title! - sort of thing. So let's definitely keep talking about it.

Edie Overturf  52:43

Yeah. So exciting.

Cammy York  53:08

Yeah, that would be so fun. Like, the research base, the storytelling, the traveling to get into... you guys. I want to do this!

Edie Overturf  53:41

Yeah! I want to do this.

Miranda Metcalf  53:43

Yeah. So I just wrote an article - do you guys know Pressing Matters magazine?

Edie Overturf  53:57

Yeah! Mm-hmm.

Miranda Metcalf  53:58

Yeah, of course. It's the trade magazine in our corner of the art world. So I just wrote an article for them that's profiling a Thai printmaker who runs a studio in Chiang Mai, Kitikong Tilokwattanotai, but it also turned into a bit of the history of printmaking in Thailand, which has its own kind of unique history, in that it didn't have a traditional base. It came in through commercial lithography. There wasn't something before that. And so by the time it's the 1990s, printmaking has only been around for 70 years, and it's only been, almost strictly, in academic institutions at the time Kitikong comes in. Anyway, when I was writing it, I remember thinking how fun it would be able to do something like that in a podcast form. That kind of narrative arc - and very broad, I only got like 1300 words - so doing that for a whole country, of course, is very limited. But doing something, as you were speaking to, for a city... like, that's doable! Just saying, okay, at what point did commercial printmaking come in? And at what point did the fine art print shop... and who was publishing when? That's important stuff. That's important histories, for sure.

Cammy York  55:10

Yeah, and we should record that so everybody has that resource.

Edie Overturf  55:16

Yeah.

Miranda Metcalf  55:18

All right! Well, thank you both again, very, very much. And I'll definitely look forward to more projects, hopefully, in the future.

Cammy York  55:27

Yeah!

Edie Overturf  55:27

Yeah, thank you so much. This was really fun.

Miranda Metcalf  55:30

I forgot to ask you! Please tell people where they can find you! I got all excited about the projects. Yeah, definitely, please shout out the resources that you're putting out into the world, because they are very important.

Edie Overturf  55:39

Yeah, newsprintpod.com is our website. Our Instagram is @newsprintpod. And my website is just my name, edieoverturf.com. And yours is...

Cammy York  55:52

cameronyorkart.com. What's your Instagram handle, Edie?

Edie Overturf  55:57

Oh, @eoverturf.

Cammy York  55:59

And mine is all lowercase, all one word, @cammyyork. And that's where you can find us.

Miranda Metcalf  56:04

Awesome! Well, I'll put links to all of that in the show notes, and I'm sure we'll talk soon!

Cammy York  56:10

Okay, sounds good!  Thank you!

Edie Overturf  56:11

Awesome. Thank you!

Miranda Metcalf  56:14

If you liked today's episode, we have a Patreon where you can help us keep the lights on and get bonus content, like Shoptalk Shorts, where our editor Timothy Pauszek digs deep on materials, processes, and techniques with past guests. Also, if monetary support isn't in the cards right now, you can leave a review for us on your podcast listening app of choice, or buy something from one of our sponsors and tell them Hello, Print Friend sent you. But as always, the very best thing you can do to support this podcast is by listening and sharing with your fellow print friends around the world. And that's our show for this week. Join me again next week when my guest will be John Coe, founder of Pressing Matters magazine, the leading publication of the contemporary printmaking world. We talk about the hows and the whys of founding the magazine, how he selects features for the magazine, and how his physical publication survives and thrives in this digital world. You won't want to miss it. This episode, like all episodes, was written and produced by me, Miranda Metcalf, with editing by Timothy Pauszek and music by Joshua Webber. I'll see you next week.