Episode 182 | Little Friends of Printmaking

Published March 21, 2023

TRANSCRIPT

Miranda Metcalf  00:22

Hello, print friends, and welcome. I'm your host, Miranda Metcalf. This is a bilingual podcast, so if you subscribe to us, you'll be getting episodes in English with me, as well as in Spanish with Reinaldo Gil Zambrano. Together, we speak to people from around the globe about their practice and passions in the fields of print media and multiples. Hello, Print Friend is brought to you by Speedball Art Products, who have been a leading innovator and manufacturer of printmaking products for over 50 years. Speedball's Speed Screens answer the call to have an easy-to-use way to screenprint no matter what your experience level. Whether you're printing at home, a studio, or a classroom, these ready-to-use mesh screens allow you to create permanent photographic stencils without the need to mix emulsions or coat a screen. All you need is your design, and you're ready to print. Pick up the Speed Screens kit for the most affordable way to get all the materials needed to print your next masterpiece. There's a link in the show notes. This episode is also brought to you by Legion Paper. Legion Paper is a fine art paper company representing the best papers in the world. They either stock it, source it, or make it. With brands like Stonehenge, Somerset, Coventry, Reeves, Arches and more, Legion is the best paper resource for every artist's and printmaker's needs. Learn more about the variety of papers Legion stocks at www.legionpaper.com. My guests this week are Melissa and JW from the Little Friends of Printmaking. We talk about getting professional gig poster commissions while still in graduate school, drawing on inspiration from our art world heroes, never running out of ideas, and feeling out of place. So without further ado, sit back, relax, and prepare to make friends with Melissa and JW. Hi, James. Hi, Melissa. How's it going?

Melissa Buchanan  02:14

Hello! We're doing well, how are you?

JW Buchanan  02:17

Hi!

Miranda Metcalf  02:18

Really good. I am really happy to be talking with you both. I have known and admired what comes out of your studio for quite some time, and I'm just really excited to get a chance to hear more of the backstory and get to know you both a little better, and share the story with the people. So thank you for taking the time. 

Melissa Buchanan  02:37

Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's our pleasure. Thank you for inviting us.

Miranda Metcalf  02:41

So before we get into all the questions, would you please let people know those general three foundational questions of the who you are, where you are, what you do?

Melissa Buchanan  02:54

Sure. I am Melissa Buchanan. 

JW Buchanan  02:57

Oh, and I'm James Buchanan. 

Melissa Buchanan  02:58

And together, we're the Little Friends of Printmaking, and we are in Pasadena, California. And what do we do?

JW Buchanan  03:07

What don't we do? We design and print our own work, largely silkscreen. And we've been doing this together for around 20 years now.

Melissa Buchanan  03:17

Yeah, nearly 20 years.

Miranda Metcalf  03:19

Beautiful. And where did you both grow up, and what are early art memories from that time for you?

Melissa Buchanan  03:26

Oh, jeez. So I grew up in Wisconsin. I grew up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and I guess... I mean, at least for me, I always considered myself to have a temperament that was geared towards printmaking. I am sort of, like, an anxious person. And a methodical person - 

JW Buchanan  03:49

Process oriented. 

Melissa Buchanan  03:50

Process oriented. 

Miranda Metcalf  03:51

Precise, maybe? 

Melissa Buchanan  03:53

Precise, yeah. So it was... I started doing printmaking in high school, and it just really clicked with me. I really enjoyed the fact that there was something that I could do that wasn't necessarily... like, even if I didn't feel creative that day, I could still prep paper, or mix inks, or something like that. And yeah, it just sort of suited my way of thinking.

JW Buchanan  04:17

Well, she's the city mouse and I'm the country mouse. I grew up in rural Minnesota. And my early art memories are mostly going to Minneapolis, seeing things at the Walker [museum]. I have this very core foundational memory of being a kid, like a little kid, and wanting to see a specific Ellsworth Kelly, and it wasn't up. But they took us into the painting storage, and I saw it. 

Melissa Buchanan  04:17

Oh, that's cool. 

JW Buchanan  04:26

I know. Isn't that cute? Anyway... Oh my gosh, was that just because you were a cute little kid coming in with a specific Ellsworth Kelly? Yeah, I guess so. I'm like, 'Where's the Ellsworth Kelly?'

Melissa Buchanan  04:58

Yeah, not a lot of eight year olds are asking about those...

JW Buchanan  05:00

I don't even think I was, I wouldn't have even been eight, I would have been really little.

Melissa Buchanan  05:04

Then that would have been extremely adorable!

JW Buchanan  05:05

Yes! But my introduction to printmaking, if it wasn't like a potato print in elementary school, was I took the other side, where to do any silkscreen I had to do it in a graphics course. Like, over in the annex of the high school, by like, small motor repair. And I had to go and breathe in fumes. That was my introduction to it. I was maybe, like, 13 or 14 years old. And I loved it. But I think because I was in a building far away from the art stuff on our high school campus, I just didn't connect the dots that this is something I could keep doing. Or maybe literally just, it wasn't something you could keep doing the way you could with, like, you just take another art course next semester. Like, you take graphics, and now you know graphics and you're done. And you've done litho and silkscreen, and now you're done. And you can just enter the workforce. 

Melissa Buchanan  05:57

Right, at sixteen.

JW Buchanan  05:58

Yeah, right? Well, I mean, that's probably what they intended. I mean... so like, I went to college not having done printmaking in years, and really only having done it in this, like, a tech sort of way. And we met in college.

Melissa Buchanan  06:16

Yeah, we met on the first day of 2D design. 

JW Buchanan  06:19

Yeah. And I was, I came in as a sculptor. I mean, I followed Truman Lowe, whose worked I really liked, to Wisconsin. And then of course, he left and became a famous curator.

Miranda Metcalf  06:31

Oh no! 

JW Buchanan  06:32

But that's okay. Congratulations to Truman. He's terrific.

Melissa Buchanan  06:35

But when I found out - well, we met in 2D design, and it was kind of one of those things where the teacher had us bring in drawings to see what our skill level was. And it was very obvious that James and I were influenced by the same types of things, which, of course, I immediately was just like, 'No! I'm the only one who knows about these things,' you know, these nationally published, or internationally published [artists]. So I felt threatened at first, but then we immediately became best friends, and then later, collaborators. But when I found out that he was in school for sculpture, I was like, 'Are you kidding me? We're at the University of Wisconsin Madison.'

JW Buchanan  07:15

What a waste.

Melissa Buchanan  07:16

Why are you wasting your time on anything - no offense to anybody, but I mean, come on.

JW Buchanan  07:20

It truly was like, the sculpture area was like a dusty hole... and, yeah, our tools were always a mess. And I don't know, anyway... then to go into, say, Jack Damer's studio, or any of the studios in Madison, I was just like... they're immaculate, it's perfectly appointed, everything's in its place. And everyone's... it's just busy. Like little bumblebees buzzing around. And I'm just like, 'Oh, yes, I may be in the wrong place.'

Miranda Metcalf  07:54

I understand that in the extent that my husband went to Alfred University, not for ceramics, but for printmaking. So people are like, 'Oh, Alfred, you must like...' and he's like, 'No. No, it's printmaking.'

Melissa Buchanan  08:10

I mean, I get it. Like, obviously I was interested in printmaking in high school, but I went to Madison not really knowing the history of the school with printmaking. I went because it was the best state school... 

JW Buchanan  08:22

That you could afford. 

Melissa Buchanan  08:23

That I could afford!

JW Buchanan  08:23

The same with me. It's no one - I mean, if you're a printmaking nerd, maybe it's different, but it's nobody's great ambition to end up at University of Wisconsin. 

Melissa Buchanan  08:33

What?

JW Buchanan  08:33

No, I'm serious. I feel like if you can get into Wisconsin -

Melissa Buchanan  08:37

I grew up in Wisconsin, what are you talking about?

JW Buchanan  08:39

No, I'm being serious! If you can get into Wisconsin, you probably could also get into somewhere better. But you can afford Wisconsin. And so that's why you're at Wisconsin.

Melissa Buchanan  08:50

I am just at odds with this whole sentiment.

Miranda Metcalf  08:53

Melissa looks scandalized. Positively scandalized. 

Melissa Buchanan  08:57

I am scandalized!

JW Buchanan  08:58

Why are you scandalized? You got into much better schools!

Melissa Buchanan  09:00

I did, but I went to Madison!

Miranda Metcalf  09:04

Well, it's it's funny you should talk about that, a little bit, because I was just in Miami for Art Week. And there, I spent some time with Faisal Abdu'allah, who now teaches at Madison. And he told me that he believes that the first academic screenprinting class ever was taught in Madison. 

Melissa Buchanan  09:25

Absolutely. 

Miranda Metcalf  09:26

And I don't know if that's... that's part of your legend, too, yeah?

Melissa Buchanan  09:29

100% Correct. I mean, like I said, I came into the college not knowing that much about the history, and I immediately started working. I had a work study job as a preparator assistant at the... it was the Elvehjem Museum, but now it's the Chazen Museum. And you know, they have a wonderful print collection. 

JW Buchanan  09:50

It's astounding.

Melissa Buchanan  09:50

And throughout the years - I mean, pretty quickly, but throughout the years, I was able to enjoy the print collection there - but I found out pretty quickly just what kind of history the university had. And it just, like I said, I had already been interested in studying printmaking. So it reassured me that I was in the right place.

JW Buchanan  10:09

I mean, as far as our legend... I do feel like it is a part of our legend that the mission of the university, or the printmaking program at the university, seems to be - I mean, since 1920-ish - to take these forms, these printmaking art forms, and take them from the commercial to the artistic. And we, to the extent that it is a part of our legend, we are the people who are like, well, what if we erased that line? Or blurred it? Or ignored it?

Melissa Buchanan  10:46

Yeah.

JW Buchanan  10:46

And what if, instead of making purely artistic screenprints, we sort of acknowledged what silkscreen is for and why it was developed in the first place, to make quick, cheap multiples, to make advertising, to make things that are sort of... I don't want to say mass market intended, but - 

Melissa Buchanan  11:05

But that was a huge influence of ours. 

JW Buchanan  11:08

Right. Its actual material culture and mass marketing, and things like that.

Melissa Buchanan  11:12

Yeah. So I mean, it was kind of interesting, because we went to school, undergrad, at Madison for a relatively long time. We were both part time. So at the end of it, they kind of didn't know what to do with us, and we were critiquing with the grads. And we were a little at odds, just in our approach to printmaking, with what other students and professors thought of as what we should be doing. Am I saying that in the most delicate way?

JW Buchanan  11:42

Yeah, I mean, by then we were being paid and hired to make concert posters, not just in Madison, but across the country. Oh, and in Europe, too. So like, we were proud of what we were doing. We were excited. We thought it was so interesting. And everyone around us was just like, 'Philistines! You jerks! You're ruining everything!'

Miranda Metcalf  12:04

'You're degrading the medium.' Yeah.

JW Buchanan  12:08

We heard it all. Melissa's favorite is, a poster was in critique and someone was like, 'I can't look at the words. I won't see it. I cannot critique it.' And I'm just like, 'The lettering is part of it. The word "event" is part of it!' And like, I don't know. That period was very tough for us. But it does make you tough, because it makes you figure out the "why" of everything you're doing. I wouldn't take it back. I mean, honestly, it was probably pretty light compared to what other people go through. 

Melissa Buchanan  12:41

Oh, 100%. 

JW Buchanan  12:42

But you know, people just... I mean, my favorite story with regard to that is, I got to a point of frustration in a critique where I was like, 'So you don't like these posters that are for events. You want things for their own sake. But if we made a set of silk screens that were the same size edition, the same 18x24, sort of "poster size" in your mind, the same aesthetic, the same number of colors, the same kind of subject matter, would you critique it then? Or would you still refuse?' And they said yes. And so we made a set of things like that, and they were lying. And they still had problems with it afterwards. But even though they were being disingenuous, it sent us down a rabbit hole of being like, 'We can be flexible with this. We don't have to sit and wait for somebody to offer us a job to design something. We can just express ourselves.' 

Melissa Buchanan  13:39

With the similar poster aesthetics. 

JW Buchanan  13:41

Right. It doesn't have to be art is over here, and graphic design is over here. They can be in some sort of weird middle area. And we can be in charge.

Miranda Metcalf  13:53

Yeah, that's so interesting, because I didn't know that you were bringing these posters into your academic practice and saying, 'This is the art.' Because I've known artists who say, 'Oh, I do this more conceptual work. And then to pay the bills, I do this.' And I love that idea of coming in with this idea of, 'These are not distinct. I am putting my creative energy into this. I am bringing a voice to this. And that is my art.' And being unapologetic about that, because I think that printmaking does have a complex relationship with industry, and that some people are all here for leaning into it, and some people want it to be the dirty secret that's in the closet, that print is advertising and print is mass media and print is graphic design as well. Yeah.

JW Buchanan  14:45

We were either very strident or very naive. But probably both. 

Miranda Metcalf  14:48

Or both, yeah!

Melissa Buchanan  14:50

Absolutely both. I mean, and I was aware of the fact that we're bringing these posters for events that we got hired to do into critique. Say I had a class where we had to do four prints that semester, well, I would make sure that I was doing eight or more. Just so that it wouldn't be a thing where it's like, 'Well, I don't want to grade you on these posters.' You know, I'd be like, 'Okay. I'm also making prints. But these posters, question mark? Also?'

JW Buchanan  15:21

Well, I mean, we were a little factory. People got very sick of us, because we were making at least a poster a week, you know? So I mean, we were little workhorses back then. 

Melissa Buchanan  15:31

Mm-hmm. I guess we still are.

Miranda Metcalf  15:33

Yeah, I would think, too, that bringing the posters into critique, you would want to be getting better at those posters. You'd be wanting to be critiqued on them. Because this was something that was turning into a career. And there's no reason why that should be off limits as a place for peer feedback, because there is also a hierarchy within poster design as well. And you're there in school to learn what your future trade is gonna be. So it all makes sense to me.

Melissa Buchanan  16:03

I completely agree. But you know, again, as James was saying, I wouldn't change it, in that it kind of had us look for other avenues of feedback and critique. Which was positive, I think, because a lot of people, once they graduate, they don't have that hot and cold running tap of critique anymore. And the "why" kind of disappears from their work. 

Miranda Metcalf  16:28

Totally. 

Melissa Buchanan  16:29

So, for us, it was really important to start getting our work out in front of people and getting feedback on it. There was a website at the time called gigposters.com that we were pretty active on, that we got a lot of critique from. And then just the very fact that our posters were going up publicly on kiosks, and we could see people in the community respond to them. I mean, I remember once, we went to go - it was time for apartment hunting, and we walked into somebody's apartment in Madison. And it was just an entire wall of, like, our posters that they had ripped down from kiosks.

JW Buchanan  17:03

You could see the tape still on them. They were like, ripped at the corners.

Melissa Buchanan  17:07

And I was just like, 'No, I can't do this. I gotta go.'

JW Buchanan  17:09

To me, it was like, I guess looking back, it was a wonderful coincidence that we were getting so much pushback in class. But in the public, it was very different. Like, we were putting these things out on light poles and on kiosks in the university, and people were going crazy. And I'm like, 'We must be doing something right, but everyone is saying we're doing something wrong. So who am I going to listen to?' Like, what's next? And that was sort of like a crucial diversion point.

Melissa Buchanan  17:44

Definitely. Yeah, I mean... yeah, I don't have anything else.

Miranda Metcalf  17:50

Well, before we leave the Madison years in your narrative, I would love for you to tell the story of how Little Friends of Printmaking came to be.

Melissa Buchanan  18:02

So, our best friend that continues to be our best friend to this day came over, very excited, to our apartment one day and said, 'Let's go to IKEA!' And I was just like, 'Well, how do we do that?' And he said, 'Well, now we can rent fleet vehicles.' And I was just like, 'Wait, what? Back up, what's going on?' And he had signed... the university had a program, I guess, or...  Hold on. Let's back up. Let's take another run at this. Yeah, let's back up. Let's take another run. 

JW Buchanan  18:31

Okay. We had a friend who was involved deeply in student government. And one of the things that he figured out was that any organization that was registered with the university, whether they were the juggling club, or the Black Student Union, or the Young Republicans, or whomever, you could rent fleet vehicles. So cars, trucks, buses, at little to no cost. So his grand plan was to go to IKEA by setting up a fake organization. And he tried this himself. He set up something called the Sparkle Time Dance Team. But the problem at the time was you had to list your phone number. And so people kept calling him and were like, 'How do I audition for the Sparkle Time Dance Team?' And he got caught. And that was the end of that. And then he came over, and he was telling us about his troubles with this. And he was like, 'Oh, well, do they have art club at the university?' And we were like, 'No, they don't.'

Melissa Buchanan  19:29

Well, I mean, I'm sure they must have had something...

JW Buchanan  19:33

It was not made clear to me. Anyway, he comes over the next day, and he's like, 'Congratulations, you're the Vice President and the President of the UW Art Club.

Melissa Buchanan  19:42

I mean, the UW Art Club! It was a nightmare, because it was our number! 

JW Buchanan  19:47

Our home phone number!

Melissa Buchanan  19:47

Our home phone number, and so people were calling us and asking how they could register to be part of the UW Art Club.

JW Buchanan  19:55

Or could we, like, look at their watercolors? Or could we look at their portfolio? I mean, not art students, just students generally. And then, so -

Melissa Buchanan  20:06

I didn't even want to go to IKEA that badly!

JW Buchanan  20:10

Anyway, we had to think of, like, what would be the name that we could change it to where we would never get a telephone call again? And we came up with the Little Friends of Printmaking. Because the "little friends of" is sort of like a bloody sisters -

Melissa Buchanan  20:26

Yeah, the little sisters of the bleeding, immaculate, whatever...

JW Buchanan  20:26

That kind of thing. So it made it sound pitiful, and maybe a little religious. And then printmaking, because even at the UW, painters were the rock stars. Ceramics people were cool. 

Melissa Buchanan  20:42

This might have been internalized, so... 

JW Buchanan  20:44

Of course it's internalized! Printmakers at the time were wearing lavender jeans and, like, polar fleece half zips.

Melissa Buchanan  20:52

You say this like it's a bad thing! 

JW Buchanan  20:53

Well, now it's in style, but back then it was like, 'Oh my God, Who are these people I'm with?' Yeah, they dressed like the girl from season two of White Lotus. But like, back then it wasn't cool. 

Melissa Buchanan  21:05

Sure, okay.

JW Buchanan  21:06

Like, back then, it was really sad. So we changed the name, immediately, no phone calls. Everyone - it might still be registered as a university organization. 

Melissa Buchanan  21:18

No, I sincerely doubt that. 

JW Buchanan  21:19

But like, that's the thing, is we never got another call. It was just over from that point. And then, like, it sort of evolved, where it was just like...

Melissa Buchanan  21:27

For a little bit, it was like, a real organization.

JW Buchanan  21:29

We were like, here we are. We're the president and vice president of a university organization. Let's do something with that. There was a point where undergrads were banned from showing in university galleries because somebody had made a big mess and glued things to the floor. And so we were like, 'Oh, but organizations can hold an exhibition.' So we held an exhibition. We held two print annuals, like, as the Little Friends of Printmaking. And then we were like, 'Oh, we're a group. We're a team, aren't we great? There's like 10 of us, and we're the Little Friends of Printmaking.' And then, as with all collectives, everyone just sort of went away or started their own collective. 

Melissa Buchanan  22:06

Graduated, whatever. 

JW Buchanan  22:07

And then it was just the two of us. And we were starting, I guess, a professional career. And we were like, well, what do they call you? And it's like...

Melissa Buchanan  22:15

Well, and it seemed crazy to go by our names. One of the things that I always liked about the idea of being an artist, which didn't actually... was not actually true, is, as a kid, I was like, 'Oh, being an artist is great, because the art is at the forefront, and nobody pays attention to the artist. I can be this neurotic mess behind the art -'

JW Buchanan  22:15

Absolutely anonymous.

Melissa Buchanan  22:15

' - But nobody knows that, I'm anonymous.' I liked the idea that we would work behind the name. Because it made us, first of all, sound like there's more of us. Like, maybe we can be hired for even more jobs. Instead of just like, 'Oh, there's only the two of them?' 

JW Buchanan  22:51

Yeah, we won't stress them out. 

Melissa Buchanan  22:53

Yeah, exactly. But a little did I know that people actually do want to know the artists behind the art.

Miranda Metcalf  22:59

No, I was gonna say, having worked in the commercial gallery world for about a decade, almost nothing could be further from the truth when it comes down to it.

Melissa Buchanan  23:11

Yeah, I know. It was a wake up call, definitely.

Miranda Metcalf  23:15

But I could see it, if you hadn't been thinking that. It makes a lot of sense, because the objects are so revered. And the objects are so put on center stage, and they're on the white walls, and they have the writing about them and that kind of thing. And then you get in a gallery, and they're like, 'So there's gonna be a VIP dinner on Thursday night at the pre-pre-collectors-opening, and make sure you don't get too drunk, and...' you know? All of it.

Melissa Buchanan  23:40

Yeah, exactly. 

Miranda Metcalf  23:42

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, in terms of becoming Little Friends of Printmaking as it stands now, as the two of you out in the world doing projects, and how you both came to it as separate artists... how did the kind of collaboration and formation of a unified aesthetic come to be? What was that process like as individuals, to become Little Friends of Printmaking, the brand? Or the look? Or the aesthetic? Or however you want to say it.

JW Buchanan  24:18

It's... I don't think it's replicable. I think we're freaks. I tried working with others, it doesn't really work that well. I mean, we just, we had an ease with each other right away. I think we just had a shared sensibility. Not just visually, like that first day in 2D design, but I think there was a desire to... not compete with the other one, but make them laugh. Or be like, 'What about this? What about that?' I think that's more constructive than the usual collaboration thing of being competitive. We had a very tough go of it, maybe like, three or four years into us collaborating. When we were still in school. Because there was this pressure, whether it was internal or external, for us to each put in 50% on each piece. 

Melissa Buchanan  25:08

Well, I think when you're in school, you don't want anybody to think one person is doing all the work.

JW Buchanan  25:15

Right, right. And there is that inclination amongst students to be, like, a gossip or a snitch and be like, 'I know the truth! James does everything, I saw with my own two eyes!' 'No, Melissa does everything! I saw it, I heard it!' But anyway, like, we got into a position where we were almost enforcing a 50-50 collaboration on every single thing. And then we were competing with each other over space, and an individual design, or an individual print. And it was, like, very unpleasant. And we just had to sort of let go of that. And just get back to what was appealing about working together in the first place, which is just like, prints have all of these different components.

Melissa Buchanan  25:15

Mm-hmm. Especially our prints.

JW Buchanan  25:17

Especially our prints. Like, it does not begin and end with the design. Then there's the materials, and the inks, and the colors, and the application, like the technical application, of the print. There are so many aspects of this. And there are so many points at which you can go back and like be like, 'Oh, maybe we should change that.' Like, it really is a dialogue between two people, whether we intend for it to be 50-50 or not. So we just had to get into a much more comfortable rhythm of starting projects together and finishing projects together. That was kind of the rule. Like, we wanted to be on the same page, more or less, in terms of concept. And we wanted to be on the same page, more or less - but, I mean, more, hopefully, in terms of the final product and whether it's ready to go. And that's kind of the thing that has made it work. And over the years, we've just sort of developed a house style. Where at this point, when I'm designing something, I'm confident that I'm doing it in a Little Friends style, and I feel it's probably the same for you.

Melissa Buchanan  27:09

Yeah. I mean, definitely. When you look at some of the early pieces that we did together, collaborative pieces, we definitely had a lot of, like, vignettes happening within the composition, where it could be like, 'Oh, I'm over here, and James is over here. And they kind of go together.' You know what I mean? And I remember, even in college, I was handing something in and the professor wanted to know, like, 'Is this both of you, or is it one of you?'

JW Buchanan  27:38

Oh, it was John Hitchcock.

Melissa Buchanan  27:39

Yeah, it was John Hitchcock. And John was like, 'I can't tell whose this is anymore.' And I don't know if that was like, bad for - I'm sure it made his job harder. But for us - 

JW Buchanan  27:51

We were like, 'That's good!'

Melissa Buchanan  27:51

- That felt like a win, you know? Because that particular print, I remember, we had drawn separate pieces of it. So it felt like a win that it looked like it was from one hand.

Miranda Metcalf  28:04

Yep. Yeah. And then in terms of your individual self perception as artists, was that at all challenging? Or did it just feel like such a natural process that it never kind of came up against ego?

Melissa Buchanan  28:24

It's interesting, because it is such like a... what we do is such a solitary pursuit, that you would think that it would be an issue, but I have not... I really like that there's somebody to bounce ideas off of. 

JW Buchanan  28:40

Oh, yeah. It's great. 

Melissa Buchanan  28:42

There's not anything that we're doing with our work that I don't feel like I'm putting my all into, or like, there's no part of me that doesn't feel like I'm being heard. Do you know what I mean? 

JW Buchanan  28:54

Yeah. 

Melissa Buchanan  28:55

So I don't really have something where I'm just like, 'Well, I really wish I had an avenue to funnel this.' 

JW Buchanan  29:01

Because we can just do it. 

Melissa Buchanan  29:02

Yeah, that's the thing, is we can do it.

JW Buchanan  29:03

This is like an umbrella that can cover all sorts of different things. 

Melissa Buchanan  29:08

Mm-hmm. No, that's it.

JW Buchanan  29:11

Oh, okay. I felt like I interrupted.

Melissa Buchanan  29:14

No, you did great. 

JW Buchanan  29:15

Okay. 

Melissa Buchanan  29:16

Good job.

Miranda Metcalf  29:20

No, that makes a lot of sense. And I think it seems like there's almost an element of sort of destiny in it coming together. The fact that you two met, that you already had these influences coming together, that you were able to work together and be partners in multiple senses of the word, I think it's pretty unusual, honestly, in the world. And so it happened, I think, as it was supposed to happen, is what it sounds like.

Melissa Buchanan  29:52

Yeah. And when we were in college, we definitely, we looked up to Warrington Colescott and Fran Myers. And Warrrington obviously had been retired by that point, Fran was our professor. And you know, we got to spend a lot of time with them. And their working style together is very different from ours, but just the ease that they had with each other -

JW Buchanan  30:13

Oh my god, they were like, I mean, that is... I'm sorry to be cringe, but, couple goals. Right? Like, they were so great together and so obviously in love all the time. It was a dream.

Miranda Metcalf  30:26

Yeah. Oh, that's so sweet to hear. So sweet to hear.

Melissa Buchanan  30:30

Yeah. I mean, Fran was wonderful to us. I remember when we were really young, like, just out of college, we were put in a book called "New Masters of Poster Design." And she was one of the first ones to say how proud she was of us.

JW Buchanan  30:44

I know! I'm such a dork, because we were in the building for some reason... I think we came to show the book to John, but he wasn't around. And Fran was like, 'What do you have?' And we showed her, and she got all choked up. And she was like, 'You're gonna be more famous than your teachers!' 

Melissa Buchanan  31:00

Which is not true.

Miranda Metcalf  31:07

Not yet! Not yet!

JW Buchanan  31:07

Which is not true! She has a piece in the Metropolitain Museum of Art! 

Melissa Buchanan  31:07

It's not, it's not a goal. 

JW Buchanan  31:08

Never! 

Melissa Buchanan  31:08

That's the thing is like, I'm not a competitive person. Like, that is not a goal.

JW Buchanan  31:12

I thought that at the time, I was like, 'You're insane!' It is just a book!

Melissa Buchanan  31:16

It's just a book, Fran.

Miranda Metcalf  31:20

That's so beautiful to hear, though. Yeah. So in terms of the style that you have now, and the influences that you have, I feel like it is, as we've spoken to, it's really distinctive. And I see these little seeds of other artists along the way. I was looking, and I'm like, some of them, ooh, it's really giving Richard Scarry, this one. Or something like that. Or one will be, like the one you've released with sort of like, the Snoopy type figure in it. But it remains really distinctively Little Friends of Printmaking. And when I talk to particularly artists who are looking to find their way in the world, they can get really caught up in the, 'Am I nodding too much to this person? Is it not enough? If someone can see my influence, am I not being creative enough? Am I not being myself enough?' What does that feel like for you all, that you're within this aesthetic tradition, yet still very distinctly yourselves? And was that ever a worry for you early on, that people may be able to see your influence?

Melissa Buchanan  32:34

Yeah, I don't think so. I mean, like, all I remember - I mean, Richard Scarry is a huge one for us. Me personally, I looked through those books, I can't even tell you how many times as a kid. I mean, I still have them from when I was a kid. And all I wanted to do was that, essentially. I wanted to create worlds like that. And I wanted to have something that would be impactful on somebody like me at a young age, you know what I mean? Like, that was my goal as a kid. So I don't really mind if people see, like - 

JW Buchanan  32:34

No. The bones?

Melissa Buchanan  33:14

The bones of what we do.

JW Buchanan  33:16

Sometimes it's not even bones. I mean, like, honestly, with some things... I'm impressed when someone points at something that is not obviously inspired by Richard Scarry and they're like, 'That's like Richard Scarry.' I'm like, 'Yep! Good for you!' And then other times people look at something where it's like, it's so obvious, like, we're literally reinterpreting one of his books. I'm like, 'Yes, yes. Congratulations. Yes, this is Richard Scarry.' I mean, we try to be reasonably obvious with our influences, because... I don't know, I just don't see the advantage in holding back. The only disadvantage would be if someone told you you couldn't make it, you know what I mean? They're like, oh, a cease and desist. Something like that. But other than that, I feel like if we can make a print that expresses how we feel about a specific piece of art or an artist, and it points people towards that artist, then it's like, two good things. It's like, we've reinterpreted what we enjoy, and sort of metabolized that and sort of expressed it. And now it's sending you away towards this other stuff that, if you like this, oh, wait, you're gonna love what you find.

Melissa Buchanan  34:34

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, recently, actually, just a couple of weekends ago, we were showing our work at an art fair. And somebody was looking at it, and they were just having a very nostalgic emotional response to it. So much so that they got choked up and they excused themselves from the booth for a little bit to - 

JW Buchanan  34:53

So weird.

Melissa Buchanan  34:53

No, I mean, it was extremely touching. And I mean, that's the thing, it's just like we are expressing our sense of love and nostalgia for these things that we either grew up with or admired, and it really touches me when it brings something out in somebody else, and they feel an emotional connection to it.

JW Buchanan  35:13

It is. It's a very strange thing, though, because I feel like half of the nostalgia, people can't put their finger on it, because they'll be looking at a sign of ours that doesn't resemble something from the 20th century that they could put their finger on. But they just feel a sense of nostalgia. And I think it's for the process. I think people remember seeing spot colors. People remember seeing things that were plate litho or silkscreen. And that was a part of their day-to-day life, like in the store, or on a shelf. And like, now it's gone. And everything else has this cheap crumminess, or this glossy sheen, and there's kind of no... this doesn't exist, except within silkscreen and litho, and things like that.

Miranda Metcalf  35:58

Yeah. And that's such an important point, because part of the feeling that your work gives does come from the specific qualities of the process. 

JW Buchanan  36:12

Yes.

Miranda Metcalf  36:12

Because that was what was being used. And while, as we spoke to, some of the images have a really strong, direct link to Richard Scarry, where you maybe have this little urban scene with these little animals doing their little jobs, but then you've got other works - I was thinking like The Year of the Horse or the Black Cat - that just feel like my childhood. And I could not tell you why.

JW Buchanan  36:14

And I couldn't tell you either! People are like, 'Oh, do you like this book?' And I'm like, I've never seen it.

Melissa Buchanan  36:46

Yeah, but I mean, it happens to us a lot where we're always worried that we're skewing too close to something. So we frantically try and find the piece of ephemera that we feel like we're cribbing from or whatever. And it couldn't be further away from it. It's just like, the idea... 

JW Buchanan  37:04

It's the feeling.

Melissa Buchanan  37:05

It's the feeling that that piece evokes in us, through our lens, onto a piece of paper.

JW Buchanan  37:10

Right? It's weird. 

Miranda Metcalf  37:14

Yeah. And then the actual, as we said, the quality of the image, the way the colors layer, that's all in there, too. Yeah.

JW Buchanan  37:22

Right. I mean, I have this weird experience where... we had a show at Mount St. Mary's University, where they were showing a bunch of our work from over the past 10 years. And we toured the gallery with some students. And one of them, I mean, God bless her heart, she said, 'Couldn't these all be digital?' And then, like, reflexively, Melissa and I go in, and we're pointing, and we're like, 'Well, that one couldn't be digital, because we're doing matte black ink on black paper. You couldn't do that digitally.'

Melissa Buchanan  37:55

Or this one has a lot of metallic inks, or tarnishes...

JW Buchanan  37:59

Yeah, it's metallic over black, or it's fluorescent. And it's a split fountain. And it goes into this. But ultimately, like, it was this thing of, oh yeah, every time we go out here, whether it's at the front of our mind or not, every time we go out there, we're trying to make sure that there's a reason that it's a print. Or we're using silkscreen to the utmost. I mean, whether it's like limited colors, or a ton of colors, or monoprint, or a split fountain, or any of these sort of things. Fluorescent powders, and things like that.

Miranda Metcalf  38:38

Yeah. I'd love to ask you about one of your compositions in particular, which is the "I'm Dumb" duck. And I don't really have a fully formed question, other than I love it, and I don't know why. Can you explain to me why I love this so much?

Melissa Buchanan  38:58

I wish I knew! I mean, truly, that's the funny thing is again, it just goes back to... James and I, when we're coming up with an idea for a new product or print or whatever, we're just sketching together and whatever makes us laugh the most wins. And that really made us laugh. And again, we don't know why. 

JW Buchanan  39:20

I've had to think about it a lot, actually. 

Melissa Buchanan  39:22

I've had to think about it a lot, because a lot of people have had the same reaction that you are, where they just see it and they start laughing, and they're just like, 'I have to have everything you have with him. You know, the pin, I need the socks, I need the sweatshirt. Please make a print of him.' But they don't know why they love him so much.

JW Buchanan  39:39

So he first started out - we were doing a silk scarf. We were doing, like, a pop-up residency in Tokyo. And so we made silk scarves to be sold at a department store. And the silk scarf was like, people we know in Tokyo's sort of fashion illustration style on little cats, like, little cat characters. 

Melissa Buchanan  40:00

Hello, Richard Scarry.

JW Buchanan  40:01

Right! And then, so we're drawing it, and there's a little dead space in it. And so I draw a duck, because that's how I feel when I'm in Japan, and I'm like, one American guy just - doop de doo - sticking out like a complete sore thumb.

Melissa Buchanan  40:19

To be fair, do we feel that much different here?

JW Buchanan  40:21

No, not at all! So like, that's the beginning of him. And then like, we just started playing around with, maybe he's a dumb guy. And then the sweatshirt is like, it's a takeoff on '60s Peanuts sweatshirts, like with the big fat slab typeface at the bottom - 

Melissa Buchanan  40:40

It would usually say "Peanuts" or "Snoopy" or something like that. 

JW Buchanan  40:43

Right. Something like that. I couldn't find what [typeface] they actually used, so I just had to draw it. And then we liked that it had the copyright information at the bottom, because I feel like that's such a '60s, '70s, '80s thing. Nowadays, they wouldn't do it, because it would ruin the shirt. But it's like a signifier of something that's actually old, that has that big fat copyright information at the bottom. And it's only one color. And it's on this big, oversized sweatshirt. And so it's like a total package where it's like, just one thing on its own is pretty good. But you put it all together, and it evokes this response.

Melissa Buchanan  41:23

But I also think just the character itself, it kind of plays into our constant feeling of...

JW Buchanan  41:31

Being dumb.

Melissa Buchanan  41:31

Well, but like, just my own mental whatever is just like, I constantly feel like, oh, the joke's on me. Or like, I'm just not getting something that everybody else is getting. But I'm not that utterly bothered by it. Like, I'm just doing my own thing. And like, I don't totally understand what's going on around me. But that's okay.

JW Buchanan  41:55

I agree and disagree. I totally identify with the first part of what you said, but I aspire to be like the duck. To throw the nails in the air and not care, and swing the hammer around wildly, and not care about how stupid I am. As opposed to looking around at everything that's going on and being like, 'I don't get it! Is there something that I don't understand? I've read all the materials, why is everything wrong?'

Melissa Buchanan  42:18

'I've Googled how to be normal so many times and I still don't understand!'

JW Buchanan  42:22

Exactly! So, it's one of those, where it's our current moment, culturally, where I just feel super dumb.

Melissa Buchanan  42:31

Yeah.

Miranda Metcalf  42:33

Yeah. Do you think that any of that is exacerbated by Southern California living, where... I don't know, just when I go there, I feel like everyone is really hot and really rich and like, really cool. 

JW Buchanan  42:47

Where are you hanging out? 

Melissa Buchanan  42:48

Where are you hanging out?

Miranda Metcalf  42:49

Uh, Venice Beach. That's where I've seen it.

Melissa Buchanan  42:55

Oh, okay, that's fair. That's fair. Well, I mean, one of the things that we love so much - I mean, there's so many things we love so much about Los Angeles - but one of the things is that it really contains multitudes. So we feel -

JW Buchanan  43:07

Totally accepted. 

Melissa Buchanan  43:08

- We feel the most comfortable in this city that we ever have in any city. But I couldn't necessarily say that if I went to, like, Venice Beach.

JW Buchanan  43:18

They might kick us out. 

Melissa Buchanan  43:19

Yeah, exactly. But you know, like, the city has room for every type of person. So that's nice. But I think ultimately, it's just the way that I approach everything. I mean, people comment a lot on the patch and pin and shirt that we made that says "Depressed in Los Angeles." And you know, they are just like, 'How could you be depressed in Los Angeles?' And I'm like, 'Well, that's the joke of it.' But it's also like, the other joke of it is, I take this with me wherever I go, you know what I mean?

JW Buchanan  43:50

Only here is it an outrage that the sun is shining, the surf is high, and I can't get out of bed.

Melissa Buchanan  43:56

Yeah, exactly. And I'm miserable. But again, it's just like... yeah, I don't know. I don't feel super -

JW Buchanan  44:04

Well, I understand what you're saying where sometimes, you're around rich people, and you just feel absolutely insane. It's like, their world is so different from yours. But I will say, the one thing, if you live here - and you avoid things like Venice Beach, maybe - I love the fact that rich people in Los Angeles, a certain kind of rich person in Los Angeles dresses like a bum. 

Melissa Buchanan  44:29

Yeah. 

JW Buchanan  44:30

And like, drives a crappy car. I love that, because it means that maybe I'm a rich person. And maybe you have to treat me with respect! 

Melissa Buchanan  44:38

Oh, no. 

JW Buchanan  44:39

I know. I'm not, but like, it gives me license to dress however I want and do whatever I want. Because I mean, once you meet a few rich people who are doing that, then you're like, 'Oh, well shoot, what's holding me back? I'm just going to do whatever I want.' 

Melissa Buchanan  44:56

Yeah. 

JW Buchanan  44:57

I can dress like a total weirdo.

Miranda Metcalf  45:01

I think I saw that a little bit in Seattle, too. You know, having Paul Allen come through a fair in jeans and a T-shirt. I mean, it's definitely, I think, a West Coast wealthy. It's so funny. I'd love if, in the time we have left, you could speak to advice for students. And I'm sure this is something that you get a lot as people who are kind of living the dream, making the career off your art, living in a place you love, working with your partner every day. But I do know that there are a ton of students who listen to the podcast, and we've talked a bit about your experience in college and that sort of thing. But anything, particularly, that you have found is useful, or that you would love to go back and tell little Melissa and little James before you took on this life?

JW Buchanan  45:52

Do you want me to go first?

Melissa Buchanan  45:53

Yeah, you go first. 

JW Buchanan  45:54

I think one of the things, looking backwards, that would be interesting for somebody else to know is, as much as you're influenced by something specific, don't just emulate that. It's not that art is a zero sum game. But like, if, say, you're influenced by a specific artist and then you completely emulate them, and you're completely successful, you're taking that person's market, the market for that kind of thing, and you're cutting it exactly in half.

Melissa Buchanan  46:25

Yeah, you're doing a disservice to something you love.

JW Buchanan  46:27

And to yourself! So I think the thing that we ended up doing - we fell into making concert posters. I think we both intended to be indie comics artists. But the thing about it is, by the time that we decided to become indie comics artists, the door was already closing or closed. 

Melissa Buchanan  46:46

Or at least we felt like that. 

JW Buchanan  46:48

And so like, we found something else, and it turned out to be perfect for us. So I think just trying to follow too closely on something or hop somebody else's train can be a little bit of a waste of time.

Melissa Buchanan  47:00

Yeah. I mean, because obviously, you love this artist, you're emulating this artist, you have enthusiasm for the artist, that's great. But things that come personally read so much more clearly than an emulation of something. Like, if you have an actual personal response to something and you can put that in your art, versus just like, 'I think that this is what this person would do had they had to make a piece for 2D design,' or something. You know what I mean? Like, it just makes more sense to have something come directly from you and your -

JW Buchanan  47:35

And the things you love. 

Melissa Buchanan  47:36

Yeah, exactly. 

JW Buchanan  47:37

And just sort of have that stuff flow through you. I think another thing... when we graduated, we were very frustrated. And it felt like we had 28 hours in the day to just do absolutely nothing. Nobody was calling upon us to do anything yet. Or, anyway, it felt that way. It wasn't true. But it felt that way. It felt like we were spinning our wheels. And it was driving us insane. But looking back, even a year after that, I was like, that was a really crucial period. And [it's] something that you can really make the most of, by just taking that period where nobody is asking you for anything yet, and deciding what you want your practice to be like. And at that point where no one has any expectations about what you should do, that is the point where you should be planting your flag. And saying, 'This is what I do. This is what I'm really good at. Here it is.' And document it, and get it out there. And it's not spinning your wheels, even though you're not getting the response yet. 

Melissa Buchanan  48:41

Yeah, you're honing your craft.

JW Buchanan  48:42

Because once you're out there in the marketplace, it's very hard to take a left turn. 

Miranda Metcalf  48:47

Oh, I bet.

JW Buchanan  48:48

You know, it would be very hard for us at this point, after 20 years of designing posters, to be like, 'Actually, now we make small ceramic pots,' or something. I mean, maybe we could, but I don't know. It would be very difficult. Or anyway, even if we did that, people would still be coming to us and be like, 'Well, what about one more poster for old time's sake?' So before anybody knows what to ask you for, that's your time to figure things out and decide what it is. And then present yourself to the world.

Melissa Buchanan  49:21

Yeah. I mean, this is something that I was reflecting on earlier, and I don't know if this runs counter to what you were just saying -

JW Buchanan  49:28

 Feel free. 

Melissa Buchanan  49:29

I'm thinking about like, when we were in school, we - obviously, James touched on that we were very, very amped all the time. Like, I don't even know what the word is for... we were just like, go go go! You know what I mean? Like, our professor John Hitchcock recently told me that he -

JW Buchanan  49:48

 Was scared of you. 

Melissa Buchanan  49:49

Was scared of me in college! Because I was just so intense. You know what I mean? Because I was like, I'm here. 

JW Buchanan  49:55

I'm paying for every minute. 

Melissa Buchanan  49:56

Yeah, exactly. And you know, time softens all edges. You know, I'm not as intense as I used to be, I hope. But I don't think I allowed myself to celebrate the things that I was doing enough. You know, I'm sure it was just a combination of youth, and my own mental whatever, and my extreme Midwesternism, that didn't allow me... for example, when we got into that book, "New Masters of Poster Design," I was just like, 'Uh huh, yeah. Okay.' 

JW Buchanan  50:29

'Next book.'

Melissa Buchanan  50:30

'Next book.' And it's like, why didn't I, at the time - and again, it's hard to tell yourself when you're young to do this - but like, really celebrate the fact that that's an accomplishment! You know? And it doesn't have to be like, oh, I got into a book. It doesn't have to be like that. It can be, I finished a suite of prints, that's an accomplishment. And sort of like, let yourself sit with that for a little bit, because it's a big deal, you know? And celebrate yourself a little bit more. It's something that I'm still trying to learn. 

JW Buchanan  51:01

Well, I think something that dovetails with that is maybe just create a context for your work, where you're like, these aren't just unconnected prints, this is a suite of prints. And now it's finished. And I'm publishing it. And maybe I'm showing it somewhere, and I'm doing this, I'm doing that. I think you have to document everything and create a context around yourself, so that people can understand what you're doing. That's something that they don't teach you in school. A thing that probably made you crazy in school is just the way that it's always, we're moving on to the next print, over and over again. It's very hard to build up a body of work that doesn't look like the next guy's body of work, because you're all moving on to the next... we're doing aquatint! And then we're doing this other thing! And now we're doing drypoint! And now we're doing this! Like, everybody leaves with the exact same portfolio. It's important, just to create a context around what you're doing. I mean, it's awful to say that it has to be digestible into, like, an elevator pitch. But that is the reality of human interaction and human understanding, is like, we have to create these contexts.

Melissa Buchanan  52:11

Yeah. I mean, I think pretty much everybody has a context, you know?

JW Buchanan  52:16

Well, sure. But how do you express it to someone? 

Melissa Buchanan  52:19

Yeah, that's true. 

JW Buchanan  52:20

How do you turn it - I hate to say this - but how do you turn it into a product? You know?

Miranda Metcalf  52:25

Yeah, because if you're interacting with the art world, in the context of object creation, and subsequent collection, there is some of that in there. And there always is going to be, particularly if you don't want to go the traditional route of having exclusive representation with a gallerist. You know, I mean, that way, if you want to be yourself, and just you making what you want to make, it is important that people can understand it quickly. And that's just a reality, I think.

Melissa Buchanan  53:04

Yeah. No, it's very true.

JW Buchanan  53:06

I guess that's the thing is, like, if you're able to break into that, the very top echelon of the art world, then they're creating the context for you. This print was produced here by this artist, and it was printed here, and he's represented by this gallery, and then it goes into this museum. And like, there's all this provenance and context. And then like, with something like Melissa and I, there's none of that. So like, we have to create all of the context. I mean, our job is so crazy, because I have to be a designer, a screenprinter, I have to be a copywriter, I have to be a photographer, and a director of Instagram videos, and a director of commercials for brands that we have to work with -

Melissa Buchanan  53:54

That we get to work with.

JW Buchanan  53:55

That we get to work with! That we have the pleasure of working with. But it's so stressful, though. I mean, because it's not what we  - we didn't set out to have to do all this stuff. But like, you find your way. And you find where your aptitudes are. And that's how you can start sort of building things underneath yourself.

Melissa Buchanan  54:13

Yeah, I mean, when we were in college, we sort of chafed at the idea of curating your audience, right? And what I mean by that is curating your audience based on their economic background. 

JW Buchanan  54:15

Price.

Melissa Buchanan  54:27

Yeah, basically, price. It comes down to price. But I really didn't like the idea of, they could only own a piece of my work if they had a certain amount of dollars. So that's one of the reasons why we started doing what we do, is I wanted to figure out a way, like, how can we make the economics of it work so that anybody off the street could own a piece of ours?

JW Buchanan  54:50

Right. I think we had a very crucial - I mean, we were talking before about our interaction with critique and making concert posters. But concert posters were also a really interesting thing in terms of the economics of print, where we had previously had an art show that we thought was very successful, where we sold a few prints from a small edition for like, I don't know, like $200 apiece. And then we went and made a concert poster and sold 100 copies at $20 apiece, and suddenly, you're thinking, 'I'm in the wrong business.' And then you're like, well, can I take the economics from this concert poster thing, and move it to the art thing, and then just have the freedom to make literally whatever we feel like? And honestly, not worry that much about if the entire edition sells out. Because just the economics of everything is so favorable to us, you know, and to the consumer. Or like, or the customer, I should say. Like, just $20. Like, you can buy something for $20 and understand what's special about it later. You can just decide to get it because you liked the picture, and then later find out that it's a screenprint. And it's handpulled. And isn't it nice when this happens? And isn't it nice when the light shines on it in this way? It was an absolutely transformational experience to just be in the world trying to sell our work, behind a table at a concert, and be like, 'Oh, we have this all backwards.' Like, everything should be about the price. And then we just sort of built everything backwards from this $20 idea. And things are still $20 on our site.

Miranda Metcalf  56:38

Yeah, I'm a proud owner of your pigeon silkscreen print for $20. And I love it. And Tim loves it. And we look at it, and it makes us very happy for $20. 

Melissa Buchanan  56:52

Aww, that makes me so happy.

JW Buchanan  56:53

And that's the thing, is it only has to make you $20 happy!

Miranda Metcalf  56:57

I know! It's far exceeded it too!

Melissa Buchanan  57:00

But you know what, though, is it's just like, I guess I like the idea that... people have sent me photos of, like, their niece's bedroom, and it has posters of whatever musician...

JW Buchanan  57:13

Or Disney Channel starlet or whatever...

Melissa Buchanan  57:15

Yeah, and then next to, like, one of our prints. I really like that idea.

JW Buchanan  57:20

Or in a kid's playroom, and then the bottom corner is torn, and they hung it real low because they're a kid. And that's just so cute. And yeah, the thing is, we just want to make stuff accessible. But it also just gives us the freedom and the weight off of our mind to just make whatever we want to make and feel free. Because truly, you only have to like it $20 [worth].

Miranda Metcalf  57:43

Yeah. Yeah. As as prolific as you both are, do you ever worry about running out of ideas? Do you have that particular creative anxiety? Or does it feel like being creative leads to be more creative?

JW Buchanan  58:00

I think it's the latter. Although, I hate that the business of everything, whether it's illustration or art direction, it leads you to just repeat yourself and self-plagiarize all the time. Like, people will only hire you to do what you've already done. 

Miranda Metcalf  58:14

Right.

JW Buchanan  58:15

Which is such a drag. But like, sometimes our art prints are like a corrective to that, where we're like, 'Boy, for this project, I wish we got to do this.' And then we do that as an art print. And then the next time the art director comes around, they can ask us to make that instead. 

Melissa Buchanan  58:33

Yeah, exactly. 

JW Buchanan  58:34

But like, I do think that creativity probably begets more creativity. There was a time where we were very nervous that we were going to run out of ideas, or that they were just precious, and we needed to write them down. We had, like, a PDF where we just had all our ideas. And it got to, like, over 300 different print ideas. Like, 300 print ideas. Sometimes it helped us, at least in the top 10 print ideas, to organize, like, 'Oh, we have a gallery show coming up, so what are 10 that we could do?' But like, it got very obscure. Where we're like, 'Well, what did we mean by that?' 

Melissa Buchanan  59:09

Yeah.

Miranda Metcalf  59:09

I'm sure! 

JW Buchanan  59:09

But also, it gets down to like, 300. And you're like, 'I'm good.' I think we will always be coming up with ideas for prints. 

Melissa Buchanan  59:17

Yeah, I think that honestly, the biggest enemy that we have is just time. There's never enough time to do everything that we want. Like, we have so many things that we would love to do. 

JW Buchanan  59:27

Oh, yeah. 

Melissa Buchanan  59:28

And we're just limited by time and our old bones.

JW Buchanan  59:33

I mean, this is the dark side of everything being $20. And time in terms of just like, we print... boy, we were looking at it, and... we print every day. And we probably print, on average, an edition every day and a half.

Melissa Buchanan  59:51

Mm-hmm. 

JW Buchanan  59:51

So we're just constantly pumping out these prints just to keep the inventory numbers up. It's wild. It's the other side - but we love a frenzy. Like, there's nothing like being at an art fair, and there's a sign, and people are like, 'Is that for real? Is this $20?' And they just, I mean, that's what I want. I want to see that smile. I want to see disbelief.

Melissa Buchanan  1:00:17

But yeah, so I mean... ideas, no.

JW Buchanan  1:00:20

Well, and the medium, too. Like, the medium is a constant idea generator.

Melissa Buchanan  1:00:26

That is very true. Like, I don't know how I would feel if I didn't print my own work. I'm very connected to the labor of it. 

JW Buchanan  1:00:33

And the materials. 

Melissa Buchanan  1:00:33

And the material of it. Like, it's part of our art practice, obviously. So intrinsic. And so I don't... it's a good question. Like, if we weren't printing our own work, would we have as many ideas? I don't think that we would. 

JW Buchanan  1:00:45

Or they just wouldn't be the same. 

Melissa Buchanan  1:00:46

Yeah, exactly.

Miranda Metcalf  1:00:48

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

JW Buchanan  1:00:50

But yeah, the print-off pile is definitely a generator of ideas. Like, a lot of our best stuff came from having to print this ink on top of this kind of paper and being like, 'Hey, wait a minute. Is that... is that a thing?'

Melissa Buchanan  1:01:05

'That's a thing, right?'

Miranda Metcalf  1:01:07

Oh, I love that. I think that's such an important thing, too, for students to hear, that... when you're not in a context where you're being given assignments, too, or prompts, or directives, that through the act of creating, you get the feel for more creating. It's wonderful. Yeah. Well, is there anything on the horizon, particularly fairs you're going to be at or projects coming up, things people should look out for?

JW Buchanan  1:01:41

We won't have any new fairs until Flatstock in March. 

Melissa Buchanan  1:01:46

Yeah, for South by Southwest.

JW Buchanan  1:01:47

South by Southwest. And then we have another children's book coming out, it's about... bulldozers and construction equipment. 

Melissa Buchanan  1:01:55

Yeah. 

JW Buchanan  1:01:56

And, I mean, we'll just be making prints in January. Like, hopefully, we'll be designing new stuff. It really is a drag when you're in the pits of fair season. And every weekend is standing in a booth and saying hello to people, and every weekday is printing three to six colors a day. And like, I would love to be designing a print right now, but we're just not. So you caught us where we cannot imagine the future.

Miranda Metcalf  1:02:27

Right, okay.

JW Buchanan  1:02:27

You asked what's on the horizon, and I think the light went out of our eyes. Like, oh, wouldn't that be nice? To have a horizon?

Melissa Buchanan  1:02:34

A future?

Miranda Metcalf  1:02:36

Only now, only now.

Melissa Buchanan  1:02:39

Only now exists. And then the next second.

JW Buchanan  1:02:42

Who am I failing today? That's my question every day.

Miranda Metcalf  1:02:45

Oh, my God.

JW Buchanan  1:02:46

Which client is mad at me? How do I manage their anger?

Miranda Metcalf  1:02:51

That is my life as a freelance person, too, is that whenever I'm doing something, it's in sacrifice of something else.

Melissa Buchanan  1:03:00

100%. You know, at least in January, we'll only be failing ourselves.

Miranda Metcalf  1:03:14

Where can people find you and follow you and put in orders to stress out your old bones for your beautiful $20 prints?

Melissa Buchanan  1:03:24

So on all social medias we are @littlefriendsof, and then our website is thelittlefriendsofprintmaking.com. But if you Google "Little Friends" or "Little Friends of Printmaking," or some combination, I assume you'll find us. 

JW Buchanan  1:03:37

We're the only one in the book. 

Melissa Buchanan  1:03:38

Yeah, so far, so far. But yeah, that's where you can find us.

Miranda Metcalf  1:03:43

Well, thank you both for taking some time to chat. And it's been really fun.

Melissa Buchanan  1:03:48

Oh, it's been lovely. Thank you so much.

JW Buchanan  1:03:50

Thank you. 

Miranda Metcalf  1:03:50

Yeah, I hope I get a chance to visit you in LA. We can go to Venice Beach together. 

JW Buchanan  1:03:59

We'll go to Muscle Beach, yeah! And we'll just make tiny little muscles! 

Miranda Metcalf  1:04:04

I feel like you two could do a really cute take on Muscle Beach. I'm just gonna throw that out there. 

JW Buchanan  1:04:12

We'll add it to the list!

Miranda Metcalf  1:04:14

Put it on the PDF.

JW Buchanan  1:04:15

In two years, we'll be like, 'Muscle Beach? What was that?'

Miranda Metcalf  1:04:21

'Was it literally crustaceans on the beach?'  If you liked today's episode, we have a Patreon where you can help us keep the lights on and get bonus content, like Shoptalk Shorts, where our editor Timothy Pauszek digs deep on materials, processes, and techniques with past guests. Also, if monetary support isn't in the cards right now, you can leave a review for us on your podcast listening app of choice or buy something from one of our sponsors and tell them Hello, Print Friend sent you. But as always, the very very best thing you can do to support this podcast is by listening and sharing with your fellow print friends around the world. And that's our show for this week. Join me again next week when my guests will be Paula Wilson and Tyler Emerson Dorsch. This is a special episode recorded onsite at Paula's exhibition, which was up during Miami Art Week last year. In a Hello, Print Friend first, I'll be chatting with both the artist and the curator of the show. We talked about how they met and formed the artist-gallerist relationship, how the move to a rural city in New Mexico changed Paula's practice, the erotic in nature, and the deeply layered historical references in the exhibition, "Be Wild. Bewilder." You won't want to miss it. This episode, like all episodes, was written and produced by me, Miranda Metcalf, with editing by Timothy Pauszek and music by Joshua Webber. I'll see you next week.