episode one | wuon gean ho

published 6 nov 2018

Miranda Metcalf  Hi, everyone, and welcome to the first official episode of Pine Copper Lime (Hello, Print Friend), the internet's number one contemporary printmaking podcast. My guest on this first episode is Wuon Gean Ho. Wuon Gean is a British Chinese artist who specializes in making prints. She's done a lot of linocut lately, book arts, and other works on paper. We had a great chat about her life, how she came to printmaking, and how a recent turn of events in her family has affected her practice dramatically. Give it a listen. And if you like what you hear, please review and subscribe to my podcast. Without further ado, here's Wuon Gean. 

Woun Gean Ho  Hello, how are you? 

Miranda Metcalf  I'm good. I'm good. Thanks for joining me. 

Woun Gean Ho  It's so nice to hear you. You having fun in Australia? 

Miranda Metcalf  I definitely am. The wallabies are in the backyard every night and the possums and everything. It's an upside down world but I'm getting used to it. About two months in, I'm starting to finally find my feet, I think.

Woun Gean Ho  Oh, that's nice. Is the moon really the other way up?

Miranda Metcalf  Oh, I've never heard that. I don't think I've taken a close enough look at the moon since I've been here. I think I did see the toilet flushing the other direction though the other day, finally. Maybe now that I'm done looking down, I can start looking up at the moon. Yeah, because they're you know, they're as you can imagine, they're all low flow toilets to save water. And so you can't actually, for most of them, you can't really see the spiral. But I think I officially saw it going the other direction. Well, I think this is a great start to your episode. We're already talking about toilets flushing.

Woun Gean Ho  It's because I feel comfortable with you.

Miranda Metcalf  Yeah, exactly. It's like because of our friendship, we've got a level of comfort. But for our listeners who don't know you, would you mind introducing yourself? Telling everyone where you come from, where you work, what your practice is like?

Woun Gean Ho  I'm an artist, printmaker, living in London. My parents are from Malaysia and Singapore, I was born in Oxford. And I grew up in this kind of amazing, beautiful university town, feeling like, a little bit like an outsider in my home country. And I made my first print when I was 11. I went to an art fair in a field called Art in Action and they had this class, I think you had to be over eight, a linocut class that you could do that was 45 minutes long. And I made my first print of a cat on a roof, which I really loved. It was like, eye opening technique, the idea that you could make something and then carve it, and then you'd have this matrix that you could make many images from, I thought was great. And I love the kind of, you know, challenge of doing things back to front and upside down and figuring out what my line would become after it gone through this medium. So I've been making these kind of little linocuts at home and my mom let me use the kitchen table to print on. And so I used to just make linocuts in my spare time at school until I went to college to train to become a vet. Because my dad was a vet, and he really wanted me to carry on the family business. So I did get a vet degree while making prints at college and have slowly been working my way towards an art career ever since. 

Miranda Metcalf  That's great. 

Woun Gean Ho  Does that sound a bit strange, really?

Miranda Metcalf  No, I love it. 

Woun Gean Ho  It's a bit of a, kind of, I don't know, a back to front life. I grew up in a vet practice. And my dad was a vet and my mom was the vet nurse and we lived next door to the surgery. So from the age of six, I was, well, according to my dad, I was sitting on his lap watching him do surgery. 

Miranda Metcalf  Oh my gosh. 

Woun Gean Ho  That's really very good hygiene practice. But anyway, they were very keen for me to take on the family business. So I went to university to train as a vet when I was 18 because it was expected of me. But I really loved making art and making prints. So I spent the whole of college designing posters, actually, for various, like amateur dramatics and you know, musicals and things like that, I'd approach various producers and directors and say, 'Do you need a poster for your play? I can make one if you pay me enough money to buy the paper and the art materials.' So that was my side project that I did throughout college.

Miranda Metcalf  And then, so was there - was your father and mother, were they also makers? Where do you think it came from, the impulse?

Woun Gean Ho  Well, I've been asked this several times, because both my parents say that they're incredibly scientific. And my mom says she loved maths and sports when she was younger. My dad was always keen on, you know, sports, bodybuilding, and, you know, running and swimming. But at the same time, I know my mom's incredibly ingenious with the materials around her, she's always seeing new uses for everyday objects. She's got this beautiful plant called Queen of the Night. And it's a kind of luscious, strange tropical plant that - it kind of responds incredibly quickly to the light, and you can almost see it grow. It's got this growth towards the light and then it twists and turns. And in order to support it, she has developed a massive scaffolding for it involving curved shoelaces, ribbons, and an odd kind of hammock-style contraption, which she's created for this, her pride and joy, her beautiful plant. And so she's always repurposing items for new creations. I don't - I can't even imagine. I can't even explain what she does. But it's amazing. And it's continual. 

Miranda Metcalf  Yeah. 

Woun Gean Ho  We've got this kind of way of turning things upside down. So I was technician in East London printmakers for a while and I had just moved house, and I was throwing my old bed out. And it was one of those really cheap beds. So it was, you know, those beds that are in two parts, and they have a mattress on top, and the bottom part's on wheels. I took all the bits apart. And I used those newsprint board blotters. And I made it into a mobile drying rack for the studio, that we still use. So I kind of like - and I made a shoe rack into a plate drying device. So I kind of think I do the same thing as her.

Miranda Metcalf  Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, just hearing you say it, of course, it reminds me of, but it is kind of a false either/or, isn't it, the either you're math and science or you're artistic. When really to excel at either you need to have a creative mind, and you need to be able to problem solve.

Woun Gean Ho  Yeah, I think you're right there. Yeah, there are a lot more overlaps. And there's a lot of mystique about scientists being, you know, the holders of the secrets of life and artists being dreamers. And, you know, and in fact, when I, the more I've come into the art world, I realized there's a lot of scientific rigor in art making. And a lot of scientists have this kind of intuition or follow creative solutions. So I definitely think there is that overlap, for sure.

Miranda Metcalf  Yeah. What do you mean by scientific rigor in art making?

Woun Gean Ho  So there seems to be a pursuit of, well, for example, there's a massive pursuit of a theoretical rigid framework for defining printmaking, you know, and then people will put theories forward, for example, they'll say printmaking, you know, it's a multiple, but each object is potentially authorized by the creator. Perhaps we could parallel this with how a conductor in a symphony is related to the composer. And then they go through a massive intellectual and theoretical and ontological evaluation of a very small kind of attitude or perception of what printmaking can be. And that rigor is so scientific, and uncreative, in fact. Because it's trying to find and define and pigeonhole and put into words, a very loose and open making practice. And I find that quite interesting, you know, that if you get into those very scientific conversations, at symposium level, international conference level, you realize that there seems to be a very big urge to kind of rationalize or to professionalize what's seen as quite a loose artistic field. So it seems to be like an overlay of, I don't know, maybe a bit of insecurity. Without sounding too mean, you know, I think people are a little bit nervous that they'll be seen as soft and vague, and, you know, optional.

Miranda Metcalf  Yeah. And I wonder how much of that comes from the fact that so much of printmaking is wrapped up in academic fields, and it takes place in academic institutions. And so often we're being asked to justify our existence, to justify our funding. And if that's just kind of crept into the everyday dialogue about printmaking, is to rationalize our existence, in terms that one might find in STEM almost.

Woun Gean Ho  Yeah, yeah, for sure. There's this, there's the same criteria. So that's why artists are being forced to speak, perhaps in the way that ticks boxes and, and fulfills, you know, outcomes and objectives. And I- but for sure, we're incredibly productive when we don't, you know, without having to step back and talk about creativity, I think the creative arts are incredibly productive. And, you know, produce enormous quantities of outcomes that would satisfy all these criteria. If we didn't have to step back and say that they're satisfying criteria. That's how I feel.

Miranda Metcalf  Yeah. Yeah. Because that's, yeah, cuz you're pretty recently back from Impact, then, aren't you? Must be just a few days.

Woun Gean Ho  Yeah, Impact was, you know, interesting, because there are a lot of people in the university field or maybe a PhD level or above. And the pressure is with them to talk about, you know, they talk very poetically, of course, but I always find there's a bit of a mismatch between what they're talking, what they're saying, and what they're making physically. And what they talk about doesn't necessarily mean to say it feeds into beautiful work. So I found a bit of a mixed bag. Gorgeous, poetic speakers with some- I don't know- I can't say without upsetting people. 

Miranda Metcalf  Yeah. Yeah.

Woun Gean Ho  You understand what I mean. Anyway, and then some beautiful, beautiful work that was not spoken about. And I thought, well, maybe we should have a rule that nobody talks about their own work. That would make these conferences much more interesting. Because some of them are veiled, veiled publicity, you know, they kind of go, 'And then I did this, which, you know...' and then they link it to a million philosophers, and it all really sounds gorgeous. And then you look at the work and you think, Hmm, I wouldn't be saying that. Maybe we should change these things. But I had fun. I don't want to say that it wasn't fun. It was really inspiring. Because there are some people with such ambition and such vision that you question your own culture and your own boundaries. So I've set myself boundaries and they're all very small, and making really domestic small, intimate, throw away work at the moment. And then I look at grand, gestural, crazy work and I think, you could also do this.

Miranda Metcalf  That's, that's interesting that you bring up kind of the new way that you're going right now with your work because I've been really loving it. Your small little narrative, personal linos. They have a wonderful intimacy and playfulness about them, I think, that I've loved, anyway.

Woun Gean Ho  Yeah, I - it's - I didn't know how to say it. Like I just started making them for one person to see. But because we have social media, in a way my audience or my window has been Instagram or Facebook. And, you know, but they were really supposed to be just to make my dad laugh. Like that was the whole point of making them. So there's this, well, in terms of scientific rigor, going back to scientific rigor, I had these really strict parameters for making, I just thought I'd make... there'd be a certain size. So they're all 15 by 20 centimeters, and they only have two blocks. So a maximum of two colors. And I am in almost every print. So because they're for him, they're from my point of view, or I'm in it, and there's that kind of - I don't know how to say it. Like it's, well, you know, the father daughter thing. I'm skirting around issues of sexuality. And, you know, I'm still a good girl. I'm the good daughter, I'm a quite sanitized version, a comical version of who I am. So like, it's, there's still a veil. It's still a performance. The performance is, you know, for someone who I want to cheer up. And have a conversation with. But it's, it's not as innocent and as carefree as I'm really feeling, there's still an artifice behind it. But yeah, I'm glad you're enjoying them.

Miranda Metcalf  Would you want to talk a little bit about your father and how his life has recently changed? And how that sort of affected you and your practice?

Woun Gean Ho  Yeah, I think. Yeah, that's the background to the series. So I haven't really got a proper name for the series, but I've been calling them my diary prints or little linocuts. And I started making them because, well, it's a really long story, where do I start? I've always had a close relationship with my dad. And I went to college, and decided to make a film at college because, you know, I wanted to learn new techniques. And I thought I'd make a film about how my dad is still a bodybuilder at the age of 75. And my mom is very outspoken and creative and Tai Chi, you know, she's really into Tai Chi. And I thought, well, we never see expats or non white elderly people on the screen in the UK. So I want to put them in the center of the, of the frame. I started filming my dad, and this appealed to his vanity. So he said he was going to go about jogging a little bit more, in order to build his body up so that he would look even better on the screen. And it was during one of his jogging sessions on a Saturday morning, that he tripped and fell against a tree and broke his neck. And this tragedy has meant that he hasn't been able to stand or walk since. So he changed his life in a catastrophic manner. You know, six weeks after I started making this film about his physical abilities. So, you know, when a tragedy like that happens, he didn't die, but he wanted to die. And he's been quite depressed. You know, he's been looking at his function for being in the world. And it's, you know, there's not very many reasons to keep going. And so since he's been in a care home, since he's been in this system, you know, the health care system, which is - they're looking after his day-to-day and aiding him in his survival. He's just withdrawn from finding out anything about life outside, because it just reminds him of what he's missing. And so I spent years going to see him every week or even more in the beginning. We've spent a lot of time there. And the conversation has always been on the day-to-day or on very, very limited topics. And this is a guy who used to be such a joker. He was very funny, he loved to make puns and terrible jokes and goof around with people. So I wanted to start this series of prints in order to continue the conversation after I'd gone and to give him some kind of visual object to focus on that would maybe lift him out of his kind of depressed state. Whether it works or not is a different matter. But I wanted to bring humor and comedy into it. And at the same time, when I started studying five years ago, I thought to myself about what I wanted to explore in visual imagery. And I thought, well, I want to explore sex and humor. And so my college work was all about sex, it was about bodies and touching, I wanted to make this kind of blurry thing. And so after I finished that, I thought, well, humor is the next thing. I wanted to see if I can make something funny, without being naturally... I'm not like a funny person, not very good at jokes, but to make visual puns, to make funny things. So I wanted to see if I could do humor. That's the backstory, a little bit.

Miranda Metcalf  It's wonderful to hear it told in a narrative. Because you know, I've just sort of seen the way your practice has changed and heard about your story kind of from bits and pieces and picked it up from reading your blog and going back and I've never actually heard it told in an x plus y equals z kind of manner. So with the film that you mentioned you were making, is that the Stoke Junkie?

Woun Gean Ho  Yeah, Stoke Junkie, it was just because for the past, maybe six or seven years, my mom's health has been declining rapidly. And she has been preoccupied on a day-to-day basis with saying quite a funny way that she wants to die. And she wants a happy death. And so, you know, for a while she would entertain us on tales of how she would find some kind of drug dealer somewhere in Oxford, who might be able to provide her with enough of whatever it was, normally something really like cannabis. I was like, 'I don't think you'll die if you have that much.' And she'd be like, 'No, I'm sure they can sort it out for me, I'm going to get them to get me something, something!' You know, and she'd say, kind of with lots of conviction and humor about how she was going to kill herself. So that's the backstory. She's the junkie. And in, you know, after quite a lot of ill health, my dad finally retired to look after her. And he said, 'Look, when people retire, they die, they normally die two years after they retire. And I'm going to donate my body to science anyway. So that's what's going to happen to me.' And so that was something I had to film because it was so funny. It was like two older people just not really knowing how the end of life happens. And poking fun at each other, in this very dark way. Not knowing that actually, there's a bit more time to go and a bit more suffering. You know, it's something I didn't know would happen, but it was a way of displacing emotions from the tragedy, and just becoming as objective as possible.

Miranda Metcalf  I was going to ask if actually becoming the documentarian was a way to process, or at least maybe put off processing when it's necessary, what was happening, which is, which, of course, was that completely unforeseen, horrible thing?

Woun Gean Ho  Yeah, for sure. I think making is a really good way of stepping out of your, of the moment, or you step into the moment and you forget about the future and the past, actually. And so I would just be completely focused on what they were saying we're doing and not care about the implication so much, until later, but it was pretty painful. I didn't enjoy it. I was making in order to fill my time. So I didn't have to reflect, you know.

Miranda Metcalf  That's really significant. Because it's - I think anyone who's studied meditation or done anything like that, you realize that pain comes from either the future or the past, reflecting on something that could have been, or reflecting on something that is painful that's happened to you, or worrying about something that's going to, but the moments when you can make yourself stay present, are the ones where you can find that equilibrium of peace.

Woun Gean Ho  That's such a nice way of putting it. I completely agree.

Miranda Metcalf  Yeah, I'd also, I'd love to maybe talk a little bit more about the animals in your work, you know, kind of, to speaking about it, you know, as being a vet, and that connection with your dad, and the animals in your work was probably one of the first things that drew me to what you do. Because they appear, at least from my point of view, in your work in a way that you don't usually see animals in art. They're never there kind of just aesthetically. They're, because I think and, you know, there's a long, long history, you know, back from the, you know, cave painting is animals, for their, for their beauty and their elegance and their just, almost their decorative value. But when they show up in your work, they're flesh and they're bones and they're sacks and they're blood, and they're so real. And when I found out that you, of course, had trained as a veterinary surgeon, that made a little bit more sense, but they're not romanticized or used as decoration in the same way, as you often see them. And I've always loved that about the animals in your work.

Woun Gean Ho  Oh, thank you so much, it's so kind of you to say that. I definitely see them as protagonists. So they have a very specific character or purpose or intelligence or role to play in the images. And they're just like another being. So in the - I normally work, you've probably seen, I work in series, and I'll do one project, and then I finish it and then I move on to the next project. And then I finish it. And sometimes the work looks like it jumps massively from series to series, and then I'll come back, loop back, to that original thing, maybe a few years later. And so one of my earliest series was the Spirit and Guardian series where there's a kind of female figure with an animal in front or holding or being embraced in a sort of ambiguous manner, they could be equal communing souls, or, in some respects, the animal could be a protector of the woman, or the female figure. And in other images, you're not sure if it's really the woman who's a tender mother figure who's embracing, you know, something that she's looking after. And I like that kind of agency of the animal as maybe a metaphor for the unspoken or the vulnerable or the spiritual or the, you know, the kind of deities that we have around us. Maybe it's just a representation of a mysterious other. I quite like giving that, or imbuing that into the portrayal of animals. I've never been that interested in how they look. I never understood people who have pets who just love them for how they look. You know? But I think it's quite common. Some people love them. They have really beautiful, beautiful, beautiful cats. Beautiful. And they love them because they're so beautiful. And it's a very, not really incomprehensible because of course, we're all attracted to beauty but it's, it's that that's very unattainable. It's not the communing of conversation between souls and between human and animal and the breaking of boundaries, it's to do it with pure admiration. One's one-sided idealization, and I think that's what happens in, maybe, the animal - the other version of depictions of animals that you were perhaps referring to, is that you know, for some people just admiring beauty is enough. But I want my animal to have character and soul.

Miranda Metcalf  Yeah. Well, it is especially one sided if it's a cat, that's for sure.

Woun Gean Ho  I know. They say - what is it? They say that we're, we're the cat - we're the pets of cats. Yeah, I don't know. Cats are funny things. But also, yeah, the vet job gives me a very privileged insight into what it's like to be very close and adore and be connected to an animal. And I see, I see a lot of different, a lot different types of relationships very intimately. And people will, some people treat their animals a lot better than they treat themselves. And sometimes I wonder if that's because they would love to treat themselves that well, but they displace that love and affection onto this other being. And some people treat their animals like a commodity, you know, like a status symbol, which gives them pride. And, yeah, and then there's a lot of people for whom there's this wonderful affection, and then you see people who maybe grew up with a dog, and they're 18 and the dog's 15. And they don't remember life without this dog. You know, so you see people for whom this this individual has, you know, never existed without this other individual. You see that too. And I think it's quite a privilege to be that close. Or to witness. Yeah. But it's also a very strange job, because... I mean, I think quite creative, but you're trying to find solutions very quickly. You have to find where the problem is, and then try and find solutions. And negotiate or navigate an ethical territory, which is about our responsibility to pets that we have, and where we think suffering lies, and where we think, you know, how long do we prolong life? And what what is quality of life? And where are our responsibilities in that? So I think it's a very interesting ethical job to consider. 

Miranda Metcalf  Yeah. Because you must also be dealing with, of course, of course, you're dealing with the humans, and the baggage that they bring to whatever decisions they're making with their animals. And, yeah, do you find that you need to play therapist or psychologist or psychoanalyst as well? 

Woun Gean Ho  Oh, for sure. I'm not very good at it, but I try. You know, somebody... it takes, it is definitely rewarding if you try and figure out the motives, or the - not the motives, that sounds too monetary, but if you figure out the the vibe behind the owner, and their desire for their, for their pets, and their connection, it definitely helps. And I've come across people who have changed weddings, they've postponed weddings, and people who've deeply mourned a snail or a chicken. At the same time, I've met people who have used animals in quite a blatant way and threatened to sue, you know, any perceived mishap, you know, it definitely helps to figure out, you know, where the love lies, where their attention is.

Miranda Metcalf  Yeah. It's such important work that you do and I'm so glad that you're doing it, because I really think that you're one of the most thoughtful and courageous with your words of anyone I've ever talked to. And I know we haven't talked very often or very long, but it's something I've always admired about you. Yeah.

Woun Gean Ho  Really? But I know that if there's something awful to say, you have to say it. 

Miranda Metcalf  Yes! I love that, though. I admire it so much. 

Woun Gean Ho  It's hard, isn't it? Because when you - you know that the weight of your words can be something that someone will mull over for a while. But you can't not say it in the vet job. I think, actually, I spend a lot of time comparing the vet world and the art world. And for a while I was chair of East London Printmakers which is a cooperative and workshop, community workshop, in East London. And I thought I'd run it like a vet practice. Because I thought you know, in a vet practice, everybody has this common goal and it's unspoken, but it's completely there. And the common goal is to relieve animal suffering. And you swear that when you when you graduate, you say, 'I promise, I'll do absolutely everything to uphold the welfare of animals.' And I thought, well, you know, let's do it for the printmaking world. So the common goal is, you know, our goal is actually in our mission statement: to provide accessible and affordable printmaking for as many people as possible, you know, ego-free. It's cool. It doesn't work in the art world. You know, there are lots of really lovely people who work in printmaking, and I think printmakers, of all the artists I've met, I think printmakers are my tribe, because a lot of people share materials, share ideas, with no fear that their ideas will be stolen, or parodied or destroyed. Because we all need to group together to use big items of equipment. And so it makes sense for all of us to do that. And I thought it would work, but it doesn't work in the art world, I think partly because we're also trained slightly to rejoice in our own voice, you know, you got to have this clear sense of identity. And so if I take on a project and then give it to someone else, of course, the voice will change. Of course, that's something that won't be seamless, you see. So inherently, we can't have a hippie commune printmaking studio along the same lines as vet practices are often run, on that level, on that emotional level, it doesn't work.

Miranda Metcalf  So I'm just looking and we're coming up at the hour recording mark. And one more thing I want to make sure that I ask you, that you can say, is where can people find out more about you? Where can they see your work and get in contact with you?  Oh, I've got a website, which is wuongean.com. And I try and put pictures on Instagram. So I really enjoy Instagram. So you can find my Instagram... what do you call it? Handle! Instagram handle is @wuongean. And I made a hashtag called #DiaryOfAPrintmaker. Because people don't necessarily know how to spell my name. Great! Yeah, and I can, I can definitely speak to your blog as being just delightful to read, and the transparency and humor and sort of kindness that's in there, I always appreciate. So I can personally recommend going to your blog, because it's maybe, I think it's better than and also not your average artist blog. So make sure to check it out.

Woun Gean Ho  Oh, thank you, thank you.

Miranda Metcalf  Yeah. Well, thank you. Thanks for coming and joining me! This has been super great. And I hope that you'll come back again when I'm not in my first week of being a podcaster and maybe I'm a little bit better at all of this as well.

Woun Gean Ho  You're very good at all of this, and you're very warm and very genuine. Thank you for your interest and your enthusiasm. 

Miranda Metcalf  Great. Thank you!