episode ten | ali norman

Published 19 mar 2019

Miranda Metcalf  Hello print friends, and welcome to the 10th episode of Pine Copper Lime (Hello, Print Friend), the internet's number one printmaking podcast. I'm your host, Miranda Metcalf. First and foremost, I would like to send a special greeting to anyone who is new to our print fam who I met at the SGCI conference in Dallas last week. Hello, and welcome. I'm so glad you're here. And don't worry, we'll find someone nice for you to sit with at lunch. Just so you know how things work around here, I release an episode every two weeks, and on the off weeks, I publish an article on the Pine Copper Lime website, which features images and maybe a bit more information about the artist I'm going to interview. Pine Copper Lime (Hello, Print Friend) can be found on iTunes, SoundCloud, and because I listened to all you beautiful people and I care about your needs, as of this week, you can find the pod on Spotify, Google Play, and Stitcher as well. The best way to keep up with Pine Copper Lime (Hello, Print Friend) is through our Instagram, which can be found @helloprintfriend. And I am curiously close to 10,000 followers there. So am I going to do a giveaway? You bet your shiny copper plates I am. I'll be celebrating with a beautiful etching by Ben Beres, the star of episode six. So make sure to follow me on Instagram as not to miss that one. So tell your friends, tell your family, printmaking forever, shun the non believers, join the party. My guest this week is the lovely and talented Ali Norman and let me tell you, this is a fun one. We get witchy, we talk energetics, we talk moon vibes, we talk Erwin Panofsky and dream journals and kismet litho studios and prop planes. It's all the things. I can't wait for you to hear it. So without further ado, here's Ali. Hey, Ali, how's it going? 

Ali Norman  Hey, Miranda, I'm doing good. How about you? 

Miranda Metcalf  Good. Good. It's, it's nice to hear your voice again. It's been so long. 

Ali Norman  I know. It's been a whole week. 

Miranda Metcalf  I know. Well, it was super nice to get to spend some time with you in person at SGCI last week. It was a real treat. And thank you so much for jumping on the podcast with me so recently so we can talk about things. 

Ali Norman  Awesome. Definitely. I'm excited about it. 

Miranda Metcalf  So let's see. So why don't we just kind of begin at the beginning and I would love for you to tell me, or actually just like, let's just have you introduce yourself for people who don't already know and love you. So just your name, how you like to identify, you know, professor, teacher, Instagram star, whatever your job is...

Ali Norman  Human being.

Miranda Metcalf  Human being first and foremost. Yeah.

Ali Norman  I guess I'm Ali Norman - I guess. Not I guess, that is my name. I am mainly an intaglio printmaker. I also like all the other things, but intaglio's my baby. I am an adjunct professor, but I also work on my own making stuff, selling stuff on the internet, odd jobs here and there. I am really working towards a goal of starting my own shop here in town that would be kind of a community shop. But that's kind of a long term goal.

Miranda Metcalf  I would love it if you could tell me the story of how you came to printmaking.

Ali Norman  Oh my gosh, if you had told childhood Ali that my life would look like this right now, I would be pretty much in disbelief, because I didn't know what printmaking was until I was probably 18 or 19. And I loved darkroom photography since I was really young, and I was always in the darkroom and I loved the chemistry aspect, but I was also always drawing. So when I first took a printmaking class in college, it was an elective, and it was stone lithography, which I find pretty hilarious now, looking back as a printmaker who knows, you know, that that was my introduction. But all I did during that class was look through the doorway into the etching studio and wonder, what are they doing in there? And when I finally started doing some etching, I was totally hooked. Not that I don't love lithography, but it wasn't an instant bond the way that I had with etching. 

Miranda Metcalf  What do you think it was about etching that caught your eye from across the room and made your heart go faster?

Ali Norman  You know, it's funny, I always had really loved alternative photography processes. And I had always wanted to learn how to do daguerrotypes, even though it's like, you develop it with mercury and it kills you. But I, you know, that is also a photographic process on copper. I had been interested in working on copper before, like I had always been drawn to the copper surface. And when I saw people etching copper, I feel naive looking back on it, like I really had no idea what it was, what they were doing, or anything. I just knew that what they were doing is what I had to learn, and the first time I ever made an etching I knew, before I even put it in the acid, like, this is it for me. It was like an immediate connection. And it was almost like I did it in the past life or something, like me finding my past love. 

Miranda Metcalf  Yeah, I love that. Of course it has this amazing history. It's, you know, up there with woodcut as the oldest of our forms, and I was actually talking to someone the other day, and they were mentioning how it has this incredible kind of alchemy feeling to it, you know, in the way you heat the plate, and all of these sort of... it feels like you're doing something ancient. And I could see that you finding a connection with that, for sure.

Ali Norman  So strongly. I call it alchemy in my class constantly. And I actually think of it as this tangible alchemical processing of thoughts and ideas. It's really similar to magic, as you're putting all of these ideas and intentions and emotions into something and then at the end, it's transformed into a new state. I mean, you could burnish and stuff, but really, realistically, there's no real going back from the transformation. That's so cool to me. Everything about it is totally intoxicating for me.

Miranda Metcalf  And that gets a little bit into, I know that your practice, it's a bit witchy, you know?

Ali Norman  It is! It becomes more and more witchy the longer I go. I don't know if it's the etching that makes it that way. But I'm drawn to it that way. 

Miranda Metcalf  I know that sort of ritual and energetics and that kind of thing is a big part of your practice. And it's something that really, I think, imbues your work with a kind of magic. And so I would love to hear you talk maybe about some of those rituals, some of those practices that become a part of your creating, and how that reflects in the work that you make.

Ali Norman  Okay, yeah. So it's a little heavy, but I really enjoy the whole process. So even the cutting of the copper and the polishing of the copper, I feel like, you know, I love to have my hands in it, feeling it, exchanging energy, I guess, with the metal, feeling connected to the earth. I do a lot of strange rituals, like I will prep a bunch of plates at once, and then leave them on an altar with candles before I draw on them, or leave them out under the light of the full moon or things like that, where I feel like I'm like charging the copper with energy, which is just an interesting way to think about it. It's kind of like playing with your own psyche, which I think is what magic is all about in the first place, is just kind of a little bit of tricking your subconscious into believing things. And then your subconscious then manifests that belief into reality. And so I really enjoy putting that ritual into it. Because, you know, the more I do it, the more I can really see tangible results where people have a strong feeling just from touching the plate or touching the print, because I do feel like there's this ritual aspect. And I do feel like it goes so well with printmaking, because printmaking in itself is so ritualistic. You know, we talk about repetition all the time. And a lot of things in alchemy, like chanting and things, was used to keep time for alchemical processing. So to me that's really fascinating, in the way that we just do those things in a more contemporary way. But it's still very magical. I will combine kind of this tangible ritual aspect of printmaking with this kind of like, deep weirdness that I have within me that I think a lot of us artists have. I always feel like I have this thing I just like need to get out. I feel like I'm going crazy after I haven't drawn for a couple days, you know? And so I do a lot of journaling of my dreams. I have a lot of lucid dreams. I've always had that. But now, when I'm more intentional about journaling and sketching in the middle of the night and stuff, that's always really helpful. I also do a lot of just like meditating on concepts that I'm trying to work on in my life. And a lot of times, those... or things I'm going through. And a lot of times I have developed kind of this visual language, where I use these symbols and stuff to process my own human experience, I guess, in a kind of a journal-y way that is maybe a little bit more hidden or occulted to the viewer, so the viewer can kind of feel the emotion and magic of the piece, but maybe they don't necessarily know exactly what I'm talking about. Does that make sense? 

Miranda Metcalf  Absolutely. Yeah. No, I'm definitely right there with you. I think that in Western society, in the 21st century, we privilege words so very much, you know, we privilege them over images and we privilege them over feelings. This is the the hierarchy of communication. But it wasn't always that way and it's not that way, I think, in every culture. So this idea that we can get to these other forms of communication, emotional and energetic and intuitive, through art making is one of the most magical things about art making and consuming art and communicating that way. So your practice being so aligned with that is one of the reasons I love it so much.

Ali Norman  Oh, my gosh, you hit the nail on top of the head. I have always felt like I have a million ideas and thoughts and feelings and stuff. But I feel I have always had a hard time with words. I've never felt like I've been an elegant writer, or even sometimes in conversation, I feel like the way I explain my thoughts, I'm like, just trust me that it's so much better inside my head. Because I think mostly in pictures. And I do love a brilliant writer every time, because I don't have that, you know, but I do feel like I am expressing something that's worthy and valid, I'm just expressing it in kind of my own visual language. And you know, the more that I've learned to accept and embrace and push that, I've found it to be really successful.

Miranda Metcalf  One of the most amazing things about art making is the way it gets into the kind of genuine feelings, right? And have something that's created from that kind of place of purity, where you kind of get in there and you're doing it, because it's so in tune with who you are. And to a certain extent, you've managed to break down some of the ego, some of the agenda, some of the narrative. That connects with people, and it doesn't - in a way, almost, the imagery is moot. Because that genuine spark of creation is what people respond to. And so it doesn't matter if it's bunnies or dragons or a house on fire. It's like, if somebody sees something, particularly if somebody who is - I would say just sort of like artistically sensitive, right, which I think anyone can get to that point, if they've been trained in art or if they're looking at art a lot, they can get to a point where they can feel that - and that's what people are responding to a lot of the time. And that's what I think that some of the early theorists like Erwin Panofsky and Walter Benjamin, you know, when they're talking about an aura of art, that's what they mean. And we're still working our way back to it.

Ali Norman  Yeah. And I think that something that's really cool that's happening in this generation of science and technology is this coming back to the intangible, the intuitive, because we're realizing that maybe we are getting so advanced, and there are still a lot of things that science can't understand. And maybe that's okay, and maybe it's good to have a balance of both things, you know, left brain and right brain. And I do think that also, printmaking comes back to it as far as like, it's probably the most tangible and process-based form of art where even the print, you can feel the deboss of the plate, and you can feel the paper. But, you know, also using that to express something so intangible as a fleeting emotion that maybe there's not even a word for in our language. If that makes any sense.

Miranda Metcalf  It makes total sense. Totally. I love it. I'd love to chat a little bit more about your specific imagery as well, because you talked about, you know, you're using symbols as a way to communicate, and I know that journaling through iconography is something that you've done since before you were even a printmaker. Is that right?

Ali Norman  Yes, so I mean, well, I've always been obsessed with dragons and stuff, even since I was like, six. But I guess that grew into this love of religion and revelation, and always wanting to know the crazy stuff, and the mythical and the magical and the absurd and the elegantly beautiful and crazy at the same time. So a lot of those symbols, I think, not only connect to me from my childhood and from life in general, but they also connect with the collective unconscious of everyone around. A lot of symbols, especially with the ouroboros, which I come back to often, is a pretty simple symbol of just the snake eating its own tail, it's just kind of symbolic of the cyclical nature of life and learning and coming back around to yourself and coming back around to mistakes, maybe, that you made in another life, or learning the same things, going through cycles, and growing through that. And I feel like I'm... and that also comes back to the repetition of printmaking, where I feel like I'm always kind of in this machine or this cycle of constantly having lots of plates in different stages. But that's something where it's a symbol that people have seen so much that they react to it without even necessarily knowing what it means. Like they in their hearts know what it means because it's so ingrained in society. 

Miranda Metcalf  So part of it is, yeah, you're drawing on symbols that are ancient. And then also, you kind of have your own language as well.

Ali Norman  Yeah, so it's kind of a weird combination, where a lot of times, I don't know why I feel - like a lot of times, if I'm feeling really powerful, but maybe chaotic or something, I end up in like this serpent-y place, which, I feel like I end up there a lot, because I feel strong and chaotic often. But also sometimes I'm feeling, you know, vulnerable, or sad or something, and then I tend to go towards the rabbit, which actually everyone always thinks it's cute. But I'm always like, 'I usually draw rabbits when I feel like shit.' Which is funny, but it's very interesting, you know, how everybody responds to different things. And even being really intentional about the language, I'm currently, just started a collaboration with a friend of mine who is an incredibly intuitive, I guess, witch. Bruja. She's amazing. But she is a writer, you know, and so working with her and and coming up with these kind of oracle concepts that are ever present in life, and kind of coming up with our own symbols for those things through our own lens, has been really nice for me because she kind of sees things in these concepts of words and ideas. And those spark a lot of visual ideas for me. So it's symbolically like, that is really interesting, too. Whereas I used to just kind of go with the symbolism in my dreams, mostly. And now, I'm kind of out there seeking the images. Obviously, they're coming to me in my dreams, but I'm also seeking them out in the world and other cultures and other ideas. And I don't know, it's kind of all over the place, but it synergizes eventually.

Miranda Metcalf  Yeah. Your creatures often have these really lovely, almost like Byzantine halos about them. Is that just sort of... you know, so of course, that makes them have a sacred quality to them, and I don't know, but of course, they're often very contemporary images. So anyway, I just think that's a great example of the way iconography is really playful and kind of timeless in your imagery.

Ali Norman  Thank you. Yeah, I love the halos because I always feel like, well, I've drawn halos on things since I was a little kid. Halos and crowns. And I especially love the way that that kind of takes you into that spiritual place or kind of lets you know in a subconscious way that you're in this dream space, or this spiritual space, or... in a way, I feel like it's this immediate recognition of a dream space or a spiritual space or like the other, not in our reality, because obviously, unless you're seeing auras, you're not really seeing halos around people's heads. 

Miranda Metcalf  Totally. And so then kind of like, maybe staying on the concept of early influences, one of the things that you're very well known for and is very distinctive about your work, of course, is the cut plates, you do these really elaborate cut copper plates. But I also know that you grew up being kind of handy, right? And, you know, working on cars and doing all that kind of stuff, too. So that's, working with the hands and the metal, that's not new either, huh?

Ali Norman  No. Yeah, actually, my whole childhood, my dad was building a little single prop airplane in our garage. So yeah, you know, it's funny that they spent all this time in my childhood teaching me how to work with metal and teaching me how to build a tree house. And I was always the one that wanted to go to Home Depot with my dad. But then when it got time for me to go to college and I said I wanted to study art, they were like, 'Oh, no, you can't do that.' Yeah, it actually took some years of being undecided and floating around in art classes before I really decided to take it seriously and got a bunch of scholarships for going to SCAD. I just started applying for stuff and applied for it, and then got accepted and told my parents like, 'Hey, I did this thing.' And at that point, you know, they were supportive. And now they're very supportive. I think they were just, you know, the natural fear that a lot of parents have, and I see this with a lot of my students, too, is like, 'What are you going to do with art?' You know, and I think that it's such a cultural lie that you can't do anything with art, because I mean, we're living in a technology-based world where so many things are being replaced by AI or robotics and things like that. But you know, the one thing that is never going to be replaced by AI is creativity. And I think we live in a more creative and design-based culture now than we ever have. Well, at least in contemporary times. And so, you know, the old idea of having to be a doctor or a lawyer, I think, is a very old-school concept.

Miranda Metcalf  Yeah. Well, if you think about it, we're in a more visually driven time, by far. 

Ali Norman  Yeah. Especially with social media. Yeah.  Yeah, and they're exposed to it, yeah. I have a friend that's a personal trainer, she knows nothing about art, and she still is like, 'Oh, I have some artists that I follow on Instagram.' She knows their names and knows their work and can recognize that stuff, whereas I feel like even 10 years ago, that was not that common. Not as common.

Miranda Metcalf  Not as common. Yeah, definitely. So as well as being an artist and a craftswoman and a witchy woman, you're also a Boss Lady. You run your own shop, and you promote yourself really well. And I'd love it if you could chat a little bit about that kind of just nuts and bolts of being a working artist who is selling her own work and who is creating her own tribe online and yeah, especially for anyone out there who, like we said before, might be a student who's kind of wondering, okay, what do I do? How do I do this? That kind of Boss Lady, art selling, brass balls side of your life?

Ali Norman  Yeah. Thank you so much for saying it that way, because, you know, I feel like everything's always a work in progress. And I'm still working it out, all the time. I just finished my master's degree last year and once I started adjuncting, it was kind of a nice backbone for selling art because you know, sometimes you have really good months and sometimes you're making and producing but maybe you don't have a lot to sell, or maybe you go somewhere and you sell a lot of stuff at a fair, so it's not very stable. And also I feel like I'm just kind of getting the gears moving. I mean, the gears have been moving slowly for a long time. I think the biggest thing to do is to not quit. Whereas I know so many people that I feel like are more talented than me that have quit making art, because you know, they get a day job and then slowly kind of give up on that dream. And really, it's just a matter of building to those things, you know, it doesn't come immediately. I remember graduating from undergrad and being like, 'Okay, I'm gonna move to New York and be famous now.' And, you know, it maybe works like that for, you know, .05% of the population, they get really lucky. But the reality is that those really good, established artists, especially in printmaking, it's all about mastery. And that comes just with practice and time spent in the studio doing it. And I think that just continuing to push on, continuing to be excited, and to be excited about what others are doing and to be a part of the community, is really just as important as the work they are actually making.

Miranda Metcalf  I really like that, I think that is really significant, is that it's not just doing your own thing, right? So one of the things that I always come back to is - surprise, surprise, I'm a podcast nerd, because I started this podcast - so of course, Ira Glass is someone who I respect very much and I followed him before podcasts even existed. And one of the things that he says that I always think about, he says, 'The most important thing you can do is a lot of work.' And so I kind of keep that as a bit of a lodestar in my own creation practices. But on top of that, I love what you're saying about, it's not just head down, white knuckling it, keep producing, but being excited about other people's work too. I think that is really significant. Because creation, for the most part with a few exceptions, you know, it's an act of communication. And so to be in that conversation with your colleagues is so important. And I think so inspiring for your own creating.

Ali Norman  That's one of the best things about teaching too, is, instead of just doing the same thing that you always do, which... I have a tendency to always be doing the same kind of intaglio thing that I'm always doing. But I'm also always kind of doing experiments because I want to do a demo with my students where I'm like, 'What if they did this?' Or they have a cool idea, and I'm like, 'Let's see how we could make that happen.' And, you know, they inspire me, and my colleagues are doing cool stuff. And you know, now we have a laser cutter, so then you could do laser cut wood blocks, and then carve into them and things like that, you know, ideas like that, that wouldn't push me if I was just alone in my own studio, at my house, working alone. I think that that's my main reason why I want to foster some sort of community shop here, is because that doesn't really exist here in Tampa, Florida yet. There's a small one for letterpress called Print St. Pete, which, shout out, they're amazing. But there's no intaglio or litho, or anything like that. So I would love to foster that because I know there's a lot of students not only coming out of UT where I teach, but also USF, which has Graphicstudio, and I know then they graduate and they have these skills, but no access to facilities. And then, what do you know, they quit making art. And then they give up on the dream. Or they give up on the printmaking dream because they don't have the money and time that it requires to build a shop. So I think that by building up the community, you are also building up yourself. 

Miranda Metcalf  Absolutely. I'm so there with you. I very much believe that idea of a rising tide raises all boats. Because one of the things I love about what I see as a cultural shift in our generation to maybe the generation of printmakers who came before, maybe just artists before, is I don't feel a cutthroat competitiveness. You know, I do think that that longing for connection and really helping each other and realizing that there is enough room for everyone, really fosters a great sense of community and excitement. So I love that, that's really good.

Ali Norman  Yeah, and you know what, printmaking does that really well. You know, printmakers are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. They want to share their shop, they want to work together, you know, nothing is more fun than being in the zone printing and then your friend is right there in the zone printing on the press next to you, you know. And you're like, 'Look what I did, look what I did!' And you inspire each other and it's a beautiful thing. Whereas painters are in their studios alone, feeling like they need to be better than everyone, whereas printmakers, I feel like there's not that many of us. We have this really niche skill, and we speak each other's language and we want to be around each other. And I think that's something that I was always drawn to, even the very first time I ever took a printmaking class, was the community of the shop vibe.

Miranda Metcalf  Yeah, that's one of the themes that has come up in a lot of these interviews.

Ali Norman  Really? Is that printmakers are great? 

Miranda Metcalf  Is that we're amazing. That's one of my, you know, the bags that I was selling at SGCI, you know, they had the name Pine Copper Lime on them. And then underneath, it said, "Shun The Non Believers." Which is exactly my attitude about printmaking is that, you know, we fall into this thing where people are like, 'Oh, nobody knows about us.' And like, 'Our work doesn't sell for as much as paintings,' this sort of thing. I'm like, screw that! Screw anyone else. Like, we're awesome. You should want to be in our tribe. Shun the non believers, we don't need them, we have each other.

Ali Norman  Exactly, right? And you know, if anything shows that people are interested in this stuff, it's the fact that, I honestly find it hard to believe, that I have the traction that I do on Instagram, because I mean, it was just me being excited about this dorky process, and just making a bunch of videos. And then you know, it slowly caught on and really, it just stemmed from this love of sharing this weird, nerdy thing that I'm obsessed with, you know? 

Miranda Metcalf  Totally, totally, yeah. And now you have your 20,000 followers. I think when we talked before I said it was a, I was like, 'It's really like a whole stadium full of people watching you.' And you were like, 'I'm just gonna erase that.' Yeah.

Ali Norman  I can't - especially like, sometimes I post, like, a stupid video of my dog on my story. And 2,000 people looked at it, and I'm like, that's very weird. But, you know, I think it's fun. I think it's beautiful that I can be so candid with my process and my life. And also I have this really good barrier where I don't share a ton of personal information about my life or anything. Unless it's like, you know, dog pictures or cat pictures, of course, can't forget about the cat. I have a love-hate thing with social media. I think we all do.

Miranda Metcalf  Well, and I think that it's, you know, that sense of getting to know people that we that we get to have through social media is so important to feeling that community across space and time. So it's not just "here's my work, here's my work, here's my work." It's also "here's my garden, here's my dog," you know. Yeah. And that's so important as a part of it too, and I think to really build that sense of camaraderie that we get. So when we end up at SGCI, we're all just already having a great time together.

Ali Norman  Yeah, I mean, I literally saw you in a bar 30 minutes after I got to Dallas. And that's the beautiful thing is that, you know, you see all these people online and you know their work better than you know their face. You have this instant connection, because it's like, 'Oh, my God, I love your work.' 'Oh, my God, I love your work.' And then you're like, you immediately do that nerdy printmaker thing where you start asking, like, 'How did you do that one thing in that one print over here on the right side?' I don't know, it's just, it allows us, a small niche group that maybe would only be able to exchange ideas this one time at this one conference one time per year, to be in constant exchange of ideas.

Miranda Metcalf  Yeah, totally. So speaking of of community and ideas exchange, would you, if you feel comfortable, would you maybe chat about the tentative and exciting little opportunity that you stumbled into at SGCI?

Ali Norman  Yes! So I am very afraid to jinx it, but I don't think I'm going to jinx it at this point. Because I've already rented the truck. I have strong men coming with me. I'm going to go get it all. So a printmaker in Jacksonville who, I'm really looking forward to learn more about him, because my chiropractor already told me that she saw his ghost. So yeah.

Miranda Metcalf  Wait, what? All right, I'm just going to jump in here for a quick second. Ali completely blew my mind up with her casual ghost bomb. So I didn't actually get the full story from her. But long story short, while she was at SGCI, she was in a conversation in which she learned that a lithographer who she didn't know but who was driving distance from her home in Tampa had passed away. And his widow was looking for someone to give his press and stones to. And guess who the bereaved chose? I bet you don't have to, actually. Just listen.

Ali Norman  Yeah. She, like, told me what he looked like. And so I can't wait to go meet his past wife and ask for a photo to see if she's correct. But he passed away. And it's a little litho press and a bunch of stones, and they're cute. They're small stones, you know, like 5x7, 8x10. Which, if any of you guys have seen my work in real life, you know that I've recently, especially in the last couple years, been working pretty small. So the one thing I think that has always held me back about lithography has been like, oh, I have to grain this giant stone. So I'm really interested in, you know, I'm going to grain a little stone with another little stone, and now I have two drawing surfaces. And I really want to share that with people. So I have an etching press at my house right now, just a little one. So once I acquire this lithography press - all of this happened much faster than I would have ever expected. You know, when I moved here to Tampa, just like eight months ago, I said like, 'Oh, you know, 10 year plan, I will have some sort of community space where people can come and make prints with me, and I'll write grants, and it will be a nonprofit, and just share the love,' you know, I assumed it would take me a really long time to acquire those things. And this opportunity just kind of fell into my lap. And all I want to do is just honor that past of those stones and of the press, and that's another really magical thing about printmaking, is that we're really good at honoring those that came before us. And recognizing that as a beautiful thing. And litho stones carry so much energy in them from being used and reused, and they come from the ground, and you're drawing on a big piece of the earth. And you know, that's incredible to me. And so to basically acquire them from somebody whose life work was to do this is so inspiring to me. And it's basically like the litho gods saying, 'You must be a lithographer now.' But yeah, I don't know that there are that many community shops that offer stone lithography, definitely not in Florida. And I know that there are students coming out of schools all over, you know, Ringling is not that far from here. And a lot of times people come from Sarasota and their first move is to move to Tampa. So, you know, there are people with these skills in town, and then they just don't use them because they have no space. And I remember that being my number one struggle when I first graduated.

Miranda Metcalf  And so it's super new, and it's actually this Saturday that you're taking your strong men to pick everything up, right? 

Ali Norman  Yeah. So you know, it's just six days away till I have this litho press, but I feel like it won't feel real until it's in my house. And I'm pretty much planning on putting it where my kitchen table is right now. 

Miranda Metcalf  Perfect. That's all you need. 

Ali Norman  I don't need a kitchen table. I've been talking to a few people, and they're always like, 'You know, that's how it happens. The equipment finds you.' And that's crazy to me, because the etching press that I got, I got it last year, and a friend of mine had found it in a junk store for $20. And just the way that life kind of has provided me with these magical materials with this mysterious past makes me feel like I need to pass that torch to others as well.

Miranda Metcalf  Absolutely. That is really, really exciting. And if people want to follow you and follow the adventures that that you're so clearly destined for, where can they do that?

Ali Norman  So my Instagram is just @alinormanprints. Yeah, and I have links to my website and things like that on there.

Miranda Metcalf  Very cool. And it's mostly all printmaking. But there's a recent addition to your stories, as well.

Ali Norman  Yes, of my dog that I found. Whose name is Conrad, by the way. 

Miranda Metcalf  Of course.

Ali Norman  And you know, what's funny is, I found the dog right before I went to SGC, decided to keep him, named him Conrad, got this opportunity. And the litho press that I'm getting is a Conrad litho press! So both of my presses are gonna be Conrad, which is crazy to me, because I was like, as soon as I heard litho press, I just assumed Takach, so I just feel like that was just another, 'Hey, this is magic.' Like from the universe, you know?

Miranda Metcalf  That's so good. So it's gonna be Ali and her Conrads. 

Ali Norman  That's got a good ring to it. 

Miranda Metcalf  Well, thank you so much for sitting down to chat with me again. It was a pleasure as always. And yeah, I will be in touch with everything. And please everyone follow Ali and the Conrads, and I'm sure that you've got many more exciting things coming your way.

Ali Norman  Thank you so much. 

Miranda Metcalf  We'll be in touch. Well, that's our show for this week. Join me again in two weeks time when my guest will be Wendy Orville, an amazing monotype artist, mother, and human being. We're going to talk about the creative process of making art versus the creative process of making tiny people. I can't wait. This episode, like all episodes, was written and produced by me, Miranda Metcalf, with editing help from Timothy Pauszek and music by Joshua Webber. I'll see you next time.